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HMS Madrigal

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Re: HMS Madrigal
Post by Theemile   » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:42 pm

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drothgery wrote:
fallsfromtrees wrote:Although it is customary to name the class of warships after the first ship in the class, I don't believe that there is a hard and fast rule to that effect. As an example we heard of the Medusa, Gryphon, and Sphinx class of SDs, but never of an actual HMS Medusa, Gryphon, or Sphinx.
While I expect those probably did exist off-screen, there almost certainly wasn't an HMS Prince Consort (to give an example).


Actually all 3 formed Manticore's first SD Class. Honor served on SD-01 Manticore early in her career as a jr Tac officer and received an award for saving some ratings lives from an engine room fire. Sphinx and later Gryphon were retired to allow the names to pass to the leads of those ship classes. iirc Manticore was retired just after the opening salvoes of the 1st war. (this detail is in HoS)

The names were originally used on the original battleships, and were changed to the systm moon names when the SDs were built to release those names for the SDs, and the BB class iteslf was renamed the Thorston class, after Manticore's Moon.
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RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: HMS Madrigal
Post by SWM   » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:00 am

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fallsfromtrees wrote:You will note that the RMN (at least to the extent that text indicated) never built a Honor Harrington (class yes, but not a ship by that name), and they most certainly would have if not for some consideration of this nature.

Error.

Manticore has a policy of [edit]not[/edit] naming ships or ship classes after living persons. Manticore was going to have an Honor Harrington class, but renamed it when Honor showed up alive. Since Honor showed up before the BuShips finished the first of the class, we don't know whether they would have named the ship Honor Harrington. They certainly would not name any ship Honor Harrington while she is alive.
Last edited by SWM on Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HMS Madrigal
Post by n7axw   » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:09 am

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SWM wrote:
fallsfromtrees wrote:You will note that the RMN (at least to the extent that text indicated) never built a Honor Harrington (class yes, but not a ship by that name), and they most certainly would have if not for some consideration of this nature.

Error.

Manticore has a policy of naming ships or ship classes after living persons. Manticore was going to have an Honor Harrington class, but renamed it when Honor showed up alive. Since Honor showed up before the BuShips finished the first of the class, we don't know whether they would have named the ship Honor Harrington. They certainly would not name any ship Honor Harrington while she is alive.


Not unless they want her to beat on them with a stick or dying of embarrasment... :lol:

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: HMS Madrigal
Post by Dafmeister   » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:15 am

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n7axw wrote:
Not unless they want her to beat on them with a stick or dying of embarrasment... :lol:

Don


I don't know. Now that the Graysons have got away with it, they might reconsider. And you know what Elizabeth's sense of humour is like.
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Re: HMS Madrigal
Post by Kytheros   » Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:36 pm

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Dafmeister wrote:
n7axw wrote:
Not unless they want her to beat on them with a stick or dying of embarrasment... :lol:

Don


I don't know. Now that the Graysons have got away with it, they might reconsider. And you know what Elizabeth's sense of humour is like.

The RMN already tried that. She threatened to resign her commission.

The GSN, well, Admiral Matthews and the Protector Benjamin called Honor's bluff, plus used the Church to give her the runaround when she tried to get them to change the name. Honor was not amused, but they were.

The RMN renamed what would had been the Honor Harrington-class SD(P), back to the original (before Honor's reported execution) designation, the Medusa-class SD(P).
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Re: HMS Madrigal
Post by Theemile   » Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:02 pm

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Kytheros wrote:The RMN already tried that. She threatened to resign her commission.

The GSN, well, Admiral Matthews and the Protector Benjamin called Honor's bluff, plus used the Church to give her the runaround when she tried to get them to change the name. Honor was not amused, but they were.

The RMN renamed what would had been the Honor Harrington-class SD(P), back to the original (before Honor's reported execution) designation, the Medusa-class SD(P).



I just had an odd mental image of what the RMN "Honor Harrington"/"Medusa's" crest would look like - Honor's face with a dozen snarling snake/treecat hybrids growing out of her head like hair. Her eyes set to pierce to your very soul. All in all, Enough to give enemies nightmares for weeks.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: HMS Madrigal
Post by n7axw   » Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:58 am

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Theemile wrote:
Kytheros wrote:The RMN already tried that. She threatened to resign her commission.

The GSN, well, Admiral Matthews and the Protector Benjamin called Honor's bluff, plus used the Church to give her the runaround when she tried to get them to change the name. Honor was not amused, but they were.

The RMN renamed what would had been the Honor Harrington-class SD(P), back to the original (before Honor's reported execution) designation, the Medusa-class SD(P).



I just had an odd mental image of what the RMN "Honor Harrington"/"Medusa's" crest would look like - Honor's face with a dozen snarling snake/treecat hybrids growing out of her head like hair. Her eyes set to pierce to your very soul. All in all, Enough to give enemies nightmares for weeks.



If the enemy actually gets close enough to see the crest, mightmares will be the least of their problems.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: HMS Madrigal
Post by stewart   » Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:49 pm

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n7axw wrote:"Theemile"]"Kytheros"]The RMN already tried that. She threatened to resign her commission.

The GSN, well, Admiral Matthews and the Protector Benjamin called Honor's bluff, plus used the Church to give her the runaround when she tried to get them to change the name. Honor was not amused, but they were.

The RMN renamed what would had been the Honor Harrington-class SD(P), back to the original (before Honor's reported execution) designation, the Medusa-class SD(P).



I just had an odd mental image of what the RMN "Honor Harrington"/"Medusa's" crest would look like - Honor's face with a dozen snarling snake/treecat hybrids growing out of her head like hair. Her eyes set to pierce to your very soul. All in all, Enough to give enemies nightmares for weeks.[/quote]


If the enemy actually gets close enough to see the crest, mightmares will be the least of their problems.

Don[/quote]


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They would just need to see the "wallpaper" of the comm request.

-- Stewart
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Re: HMS Madrigal
Post by Vince   » Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:58 am

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stewart wrote:
n7axw wrote:"Theemile"]"Kytheros"]The RMN already tried that. She threatened to resign her commission.

The GSN, well, Admiral Matthews and the Protector Benjamin called Honor's bluff, plus used the Church to give her the runaround when she tried to get them to change the name. Honor was not amused, but they were.

The RMN renamed what would had been the Honor Harrington-class SD(P), back to the original (before Honor's reported execution) designation, the Medusa-class SD(P).


I just had an odd mental image of what the RMN "Honor Harrington"/"Medusa's" crest would look like - Honor's face with a dozen snarling snake/treecat hybrids growing out of her head like hair. Her eyes set to pierce to your very soul. All in all, Enough to give enemies nightmares for weeks.


If the enemy actually gets close enough to see the crest, mightmares will be the least of their problems.

Don[/quote]They would just need to see the "wallpaper" of the comm request.

-- Stewart[/quote]

-----End previous quotes-----Begin my response*-----

I don't think that Queen Elizabeth and the RMN would do that. I think the RMN's Medusa crest would be more classical in nature (No snake/treecat hybrids). And I don't think they would use Honor as the model. Among other items, at the time of her return, she wore an eyepatch over one eye. And I'm don't think that salamanders were associated with Gorgons.

As for the GSN Honor Harrington's crest, it is the same as Honor's coat of arms:
Field of Dishonor, Chapter 12 wrote:"Oh, that!" He waved a dismissive hand, then stood beside her and opened the overhead luggage compartment to withdraw a large, expensive-looking shoulder bag. It was black, made of natural leather and polished to a mirror-bright gloss. It was also, she noticed in surprise, badged in gold with the coat of arms she'd selected as Steadholder Harrington: side-by-side representations of the western hemispheres of Sphinx and Grayson, joined by the stylized key that was the patriarch's sigil of a steadholder, under a vac helmet crest. The helmet looked very little like modern equipment, but it was the symbol which had denoted naval service for almost two thousand T-years.
Ashes of Victory, Chapter 2 wrote:Her thoughts chopped off as she saw the ship's crest on the bulkhead behind the honor guard. The basis of the crest was glaringly obvious. She'd seen the same set of arms every time she looked at her own steadholder's key . . . and if there'd been any question at all of where it had come from, the ship's name blazoned above it would have dispelled it immediately.
She stared at the crest, unable to look away even though she knew her reaction was fully validating the torrent of amusement she felt flooding from the Earl of White Haven. And it was probably as well for the earl's continued existence that she couldn't turn away, she realized later, for if she'd been able to, and if he'd been smirking even a tenth as broadly as she suspected he had, and if he'd been in arm's reach . . .
But she had no time to think about such things just then, for the tumult about her was dying, and Thomas Greentree decided to ignore the strict demands of naval protocol just this once. His hand came down from its salute even before hers did, and it reached out, catching hers in a crushing clasp of welcome before she could say a word.
"Welcome home, My Lady!" he said, and if his voice was husky with emotion, it also echoed in the sudden quiet. "Welcome home. And welcome aboard the Honor Harrington!"
Italics are the author's, boldface is my emphasis.

*Due to the quote limitation on the forum, and the corresponding difficulty of properly attributing quotes, I am separating out my response from any previous quotes.
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History does not repeat itself so much as it echoes.
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