What Checkov's Guns have you found in the Honorverse

Joat42 wrote:

SWM wrote:...snip...

There is one Checkov's gun which I suspect won't be fired:
* The grav lance was introduced in OBS as a flawed system. David hinted early on that it might come back. But that mummified horse has been dug up and beaten to pulp so many times that I doubt it will come back in text.

One could argue that with all the advances with compact fusion bottles, beta²-nodes and such that you could theoretically fit a grav-lance into a big honking missile and it's probably Ms. Foraker that'll come up with a practical solution...

Please, please! Don't hit me!

...

...

Just joking.

...and with THIS you risk getting your reading privileges revoked!

...and bringing the thread back around to its original intent...

HMS Unconquered.

dreamrider

...and further...

All discussions of the Eridani Edict.


dreamrider

And to some extent, the Invincible Solarian League Navy, who all through the first half of the series was portrayed as this 800-lb gorilla neitehr side wanted to confront.

Albeit in this case, the gun blew up and fell apart once it was fired.

Joat42 wrote:

SWM wrote:...snip...

There is one Checkov's gun which I suspect won't be fired:
* The grav lance was introduced in OBS as a flawed system. David hinted early on that it might come back. But that mummified horse has been dug up and beaten to pulp so many times that I doubt it will come back in text.

One could argue that with all the advances with compact fusion bottles, beta²-nodes and such that you could theoretically fit a grav-lance into a big honking missile and it's probably Ms. Foraker that'll come up with a practical solution...

Please, please! Don't hit me!

...

...

Just joking.

*Hutch refrains from hitting Joat42*

....

....

....

*Hutch shoots Joat42 in the face with a Tribarrel*

I have one last aside on the concept of Checkov's gun. There is another plot device which contrasts with Checkov's gun--deus ex machine, the sudden appearance of a resolution through a completely unforeseen intervention. Another way that people sometimes use the phrase Checkov's gun is that an author usually needs to set up or foreshadow the elements which become critical, to avoid deus ex machine. Springing major elements on readers has its place, but most of the time it is best if one can look back and see how it logically follows from previously presented information.

It is essentially the inverse of what Checkov really meant. Checkov was telling playwrites not to introduce elements that won't be used; the inverse is that authors should (usually) not use elements that have not been introduced.

dreamrider wrote:

Mor wrote:I am not sure why would you think that, i'd be surprised if anyone beside teenagers were able to delve in more than a couple of books deep.

What?!

While this series is about science fiction and has more science-y overtones than others, overall this the good old teenage fantasy mold. The super duper best in everything hero, the black&white enemies and the huge detailed world to escape into. So unless the mentioned individual with post doctorate in Astrophysics is immature or just looking for some light "reading" to fill in mindless tasks (like jogging), I doubt that this series will be his port of call.

Mor wrote:While this series being a science fiction and has some science-y overtone, overall this the good old teenage fantasy mold. The super duper best in everything hero, the black&white enemies and the huge detailed world to escape into. So unless the mentioned individual with post doctorate in Astrophysics is imature or looking for light "reading" to fill in some time (like for joging) I doubt that this series will be his port of call.

I am not sure what series you are reading, but things like "black and white enemies" in no way, shape, or form describes the Honorverse. Yes, the Peeps are the bad guys, but as early as the second book we are introduced to sympathetic and honorable characters in the Peep Navy. As for readers being mostly teens, the How old are Honorverse fans thread more or less completely disproves that falicy.

Since this thread has been irritating me for a while, I'm going to spread the irritation around a little. If you don't want to read a grouch, skip to the next post now....

Still with me? First, the Checkov's Gun nonsense. When writers talk about writing, they are almost always talking about their particular style of writing, or sometimes about the currently fashionable style of writing. Oddly, this is usually their style unless they're panning it. Checkov was writing about a particular style of tightly written story, where everything has a purpose other than simply providing interesting but essentially meaningless background (meaningless for the plot, that is). While RFC has a rather different writing style, he's pretty reliable in foreshadowing critical plot developments.

Second, the deus ex machina nonsense that everyone quotes. In Classical Greece, these plays were religious works in honor of a particular deity, and the deity in question was expected to show up and do whatever invoking that deity was supposed to do for the worshiper. If the deity in question didn't put in an appearance, there could well have been a riot, and the playwright and cast might have to flee for their lives - or drink hemlock.

The only place I can remember RFC pulling a development completely out of thin air is the introduction of Albrecht Detweiller, and that was because of the way collapsing the originally planned two parts into one made it impossible to introduce the MAlign gently the way he'd originally planned.

End of rant. We return you to your originally planned programming.

JohnRoth wrote:Checkov was writing about a particular style of tightly written story, where everything has a purpose other than simply providing interesting but essentially meaningless background (meaningless for the plot, that is). While RFC has a rather different writing style, he's pretty reliable in foreshadowing critical plot developments.

Indeed, he was also writing short stories not creating huge fantasy universe.. foreshadowing is indeed the concept this this discussion should follow.