Uncompromising Honor sequel

tlb wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:Any way you cut it that seems to be 18 - 24 months younger than Timeline #2 claims. So, as discrepency. (Just one that goes further than just Ms. Midshipwoman Harrington)

Let's blame it on the "Great Resizing", since the latest number (from "First Victory" in What Price Victory) has her turning 17 before she leaves to join the Academy in December 1877 PD (which still is a one year discrepancy if her birth was October 1859 PD). Also that story has her mother pregnant in September 1858 PD, which should put the birth before October!?

Yes let's blame it on that

Though on the pregnancy thing - prolong (at least earlier generations of it) extend gestation. So a 13+ month pregnancy for an, IIRC, recipient of second generation prolong recipient like Allison likely isn't a discrepancy.

Uncompromising Honor wrote:“Thank God,” a very pregnant Allison Harrington said quietly. Prolong extended gestation periods, and it seemed that, like Faith and James, her third daughter would be born on Grayson.

In Fire Forged: Let's Dance wrote:Without the third-generation therapies developed to accelerate the maturation of the physical brain and neural processes—and, she reminded herself, gestation periods—which prolong would otherwise have retarded (which had been the real obstacle to administering prolong in mid- or even early adolescence)

tlb wrote:Let's blame it on the "Great Resizing", since the latest number (from "First Victory" in What Price Victory) has her turning 17 before she leaves to join the Academy in December 1877 PD (which still is a one year discrepancy if her birth was October 1859 PD). Also that story has her mother pregnant in September 1858 PD, which should put the birth before October!?

Doesn't prolong make pregnancies take longer?

Jonathan_S wrote:

On Basilisk Station wrote:But she was almost twenty-four years old—over forty Terran standard years [...] Fifteen years—twenty-five T-years—since that first exciting, terrifying day on the Saganami campus. Two and a half years of Academy classes

In this passage, it's ambiguous if "two and a half years" means T-years or Manticore years. But given that the two previous times in the same paragraph "years" are Manticoran and the T-years are otherwise clearly marked, it would mean the Island is 2.5 Manticore years, so about 1575 days or 4.3 T-years.

Jonathan_S wrote:Though on the pregnancy thing - prolong (at least earlier generations of it) extend gestation. So a 13+ month pregnancy for an, IIRC, recipient of second generation prolong recipient like Allison likely isn't a discrepancy.

Uncompromising Honor wrote:“Thank God,” a very pregnant Allison Harrington said quietly. Prolong extended gestation periods, and it seemed that, like Faith and James, her third daughter would be born on Grayson.

Thanks, I had completely forgotten about the effects of Prolong and only considered a standard nine months.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:quote="On Basilisk Station"
>>But she was almost twenty-four years old—over forty Terran standard years [...] Fifteen years—twenty-five T-years—since that first exciting, terrifying day on the Saganami campus. Two and a half years of Academy classes<<

In this passage, it's ambiguous if "two and a half years" means T-years or Manticore years. But given that the two previous times in the same paragraph "years" are Manticoran and the T-years are otherwise clearly marked, it would mean the Island is 2.5 Manticore years, so about 1575 days or 4.3 T-years.

Oh - good point.
Don't know why I unthinkingly assumed that the one time it wasn't followed by a T-year conversion that it was unquestionably T-years.

And 4.3 T-years would make a lot more sense for what's supposed to be at least a basic college degree plus naval training. 2.5 did sound awfully fast. (Especially for peacetime without even to rapid naval growth right before the war -- there just wasn't any pressing need to rush the student out to fill vacancies caused by losses and new construction)

Jonathan_S wrote:And 4.3 T-years would make a lot more sense for what's supposed to be at least a basic college degree plus naval training. 2.5 did sound awfully fast. (Especially for peacetime without even to rapid naval growth right before the war -- there just wasn't any pressing need to rush the student out to fill vacancies caused by losses and new construction)

I think we did hear that the classes had been shortened during the war, so Abigail Hearns' time at the Island may have been one of those short ones. The Nasty Kittens, on the other hand, graduated in 1920 so either they joined around the time of the cessation of hostilities of the first war (if it is 4.25 T-year), or well after that if only 2.5 T-years. Either way, I'd assume that the curriculum had reverted to its peace-time one. The RMN was undergoing a downsizing, they wouldn't need a huge amount of officers.

In fact, it kind of has to be because of what we know about Abigail Hearns. AoV says she managed to convince her father to allow her to go during the time of mourning of Honor's loss, so around 1912 PD. With the lead time to get accepted and travel, she must have started around 1913 (either the second class of 288 AL or the first of 289 AL, assuming there are two per Manticore year). We first meet her in Ashes of Victory, when Honor is teaching at the Academy, and she's been invited (multiple times already) to the dinner at Honor's mansion in Landing. At this time, she's described as 19 T-years old. She's just graduated from the Island in "The Service of the Sword", which says she was 22 T-years of age, so it has to be 3 T-years later (roughly). Since Abigail spent the better part of 4 years studying at the Island, the full coursework has to be that long and the middies after her would have also had a full-length education.

Ah, you guys finally found the OBS quote(OCS Saganami requires ~4T years to complete). I believe there is also a quote in AAC or SoSaG where the bupers guy is talking about how they had compressed Saganami island schooling down to 2.5T years or 3. It could also be a quote from HAE when Honor is trying to get crew for Q ship squadron.

Is it also OBS which says Honor enrolled in JROTC or whatever equivalent Manticoran acronym... Or am I thinking of Treecat series Stephanie Harrington... Hrmm, maybe both.

Also, there is a difference between officer candidate school and getting your ~4 year BS degree at say Air Force Academy.

So, upon graduation Saganami Island naval school, average age will be ~22. Throw in all the older guys gals joining late due to prolong... transferring in from a decade or two in merchant marine. Think said Ginger went through OCS in ? 1 year in SoSag. Gah, old memory.

Think several of you are forgetting prolong in all of this mess.

Relax wrote:Also, there is a difference between officer candidate school and getting your ~4 year BS degree at say Air Force Academy.

So, upon graduation Saganami Island naval school, average age will be ~22. Throw in all the older guys gals joining late due to prolong... transferring in from a decade or two in merchant marine. Think said Ginger went through OCS in ? 1 year in SoSag. Gah, old memory.

Think several of you are forgetting prolong in all of this mess.

I am not sure that prolong enters into the age requirement for the Academy. Does anyone know for sure? I do not think that they would send merchant marine transfers there; instead they would go to OCS, the same as Ginger Lewis. From Shadow of Saganami:

Chapter 3 wrote:"I find myself at something of a disadvantage, in some ways," she continued, "because I never attended the Academy. I was directly commissioned, and they put me through OCS aboard Vulcan. As a result, I never made a snotty cruise, so this particular rite of passage is outside my direct personal experience."

Helen didn't move a single muscle, but she found herself studying Lewis much more intently. The commander looked young for her rank, even in a society with prolong. And now that Helen was paying attention to the medal ribbons on the breast of the Engineer's space-black tunic, she was impressed. They were headed by the Osterman Cross. The Osterman was about one notch below the Manticore Cross, and, like the MC, it could be awarded only for valor. Unlike the MC, however, it could be awarded only to enlisted personnel or noncommissioned officers. The Conspicuous Gallantry Medal kept the OC company, as did the red sleeve stripe which indicated the commander had been wounded in action and the additional stripe which indicated someone who had been mentioned in dispatches.

An impressive collection, Helen thought. And one which almost certainly helped explain Lewis' commission. The RMN had always had a higher percentage of "mustangs"—officers who'd been promoted from the enlisted ranks—than most navies, but it appeared Ginger Lewis was something out of the ordinary even for the Star Kingdom.

The US Air Force Academy has the following age requirement: "Be at least 17 but not past your 23rd birthday by July 1 of the year you enter the Academy". I do not understand why that might change even if we had prolong, because the system would still want them reasonably fresh out of high school.

tlb wrote:The US Air Force Academy has the following age requirement: "Be at least 17 but not past your 23rd birthday by July 1 of the year you enter the Academy". I do not understand why that might change even if we had prolong, because the system would still want them reasonably fresh out of high school.

The Saganami Island Academy wouldn't be the right place for them -- but with prolong allowing people time for two or three full consecutive careers you might well have people interesting in joining the navy in their 60s. Some would have some relevant experience from the Merchant Marine and might be able to go straight through OCS. But I wouldn't be surprised if the RMN had some kind of preparatory school for folks who don't need the college education part of the Academy, but still need to learn certain knowledge and skills before being ready for OCS.

I doubt, with lifespans in the 200+ range that Militaries are going to restrict themselves to only accepting folks reasonably fresh out of high school. They may not have made the transition yet (though manpower shortages during parts of the Wars might have pushed the RMN to) but as societies fully adapts to prolong, and multiple careers over ones life become the norm, I'd expect militaries to create paths for them to be one of those later careers.

tlb wrote:The US Air Force Academy has the following age requirement: "Be at least 17 but not past your 23rd birthday by July 1 of the year you enter the Academy". I do not understand why that might change even if we had prolong, because the system would still want them reasonably fresh out of high school.

Jonathan_S wrote:The Saganami Island Academy wouldn't be the right place for them -- but with prolong allowing people time for two or three full consecutive careers you might well have people interesting in joining the navy in their 60s. Some would have some relevant experience from the Merchant Marine and might be able to go straight through OCS. But I wouldn't be surprised if the RMN had some kind of preparatory school for folks who don't need the college education part of the Academy, but still need to learn certain knowledge and skills before being ready for OCS.

I doubt, with lifespans in the 200+ range that Militaries are going to restrict themselves to only accepting folks reasonably fresh out of high school. They may not have made the transition yet (though manpower shortages during parts of the Wars might have pushed the RMN to) but as societies fully adapts to prolong, and multiple careers over ones life become the norm, I'd expect militaries to create paths for them to be one of those later careers.

I am sure you are correct, but their entry point is unlikely to be the Academy; it will either be OCS or specialty schooling. Still (with a few exceptions) the military life, particularly as a junior officer or enlisted personnel, is more suited to someone in an earlier stage of their life. An warrant officer or NCO would be a better starting spot for the more experienced entrant.