Rebuilding Manticore's infrastructure

I didn't mean to kick up a fuss with my reply about the sleeper's being part of the thread or not, I just had not followed the thought as closely as I might have. I can see the point now that it's been explained to me.

Mycall4me wrote:I didn't mean to kick up a fuss with my reply about the sleeper's being part of the thread or not, I just had not followed the thought as closely as I might have. I can see the point now that it's been explained to me.

You didn't do anything wrong, and you didn't kick up a fuss. As I said, thread drift used to drive me bonkers as well. It is perfectly fine to want your thread to stay on topic. And there might be times that you will have to do something to bring it back on topic. But I have learned to allow the peripheral discussion to go on and I continue to post on topic. The two, or several sometimes, different threads will usually merge at some point.

I was simply preparing you for what might come, not complaining.

So, I'm re reading the series and was up to Mission of Honor when I originally posted this thread. Now that I'm two thirds of the way through A Rising Thunder David shared some of the details about how having Beowolf, and Haven (and especially Bolthole) in the mix, will mean even the most optimistic estimates on rebuilding are going to be exceeded. He mentioned it as being years NOT decades, so that sounds good to me. After all, they may not be building superdreadnaughts in the MBS anytime soon, (Bolthole sounds like it will be the primary yard for that task) but they are definitely going to need lac's, Roland's, and Saganami's real soon now. Plus somewhere to repair battle damaged ships. I think it might still be a while before they will get up to building more Nike's though.

penny wrote:

Mycall4me wrote:I didn't mean to kick up a fuss with my reply about the sleeper's being part of the thread or not, I just had not followed the thought as closely as I might have. I can see the point now that it's been explained to me.

You didn't do anything wrong, and you didn't kick up a fuss. As I said, thread drift used to drive me bonkers as well. It is perfectly fine to want your thread to stay on topic. And there might be times that you will have to do something to bring it back on topic. But I have learned to allow the peripheral discussion to go on and I continue to post on topic. The two, or several sometimes, different threads will usually merge at some I was simply preparing you for what might come, not complaining.

Got it! Thanks for your advice.

Mycall4me wrote:So, I'm re reading the series and was up to Mission of Honor when I originally posted this thread. Now that I'm two thirds of the way through A Rising Thunder David shared some of the details about how having Beowolf, and Haven (and especially Bolthole) in the mix, will mean even the most optimistic estimates on rebuilding are going to be exceeded. He mentioned it as being years NOT decades, so that sounds good to me. After all they may not be building superdreadnaughts in the MBS anytime soon, but they are definitely going to need lac's, Roland's, and Saganami's real soon now. I think it might still be a while before they will get up to building more Nike's though.

Rebuilding should go much faster in time of peace than when at war. Especially when you aren't throwing efforts down the drain because your enemy is destroying your efforts.

But this depends on certain factions of the government not coming to power and killing the budget.

penny wrote:

Mycall4me wrote:So, I'm re reading the series and was up to Mission of Honor when I originally posted this thread. Now that I'm two thirds of the way through A Rising Thunder David shared some of the details about how having Beowolf, and Haven (and especially Bolthole) in the mix, will mean even the most optimistic estimates on rebuilding are going to be exceeded. He mentioned it as being years NOT decades, so that sounds good to me. After all they may not be building superdreadnaughts in the MBS anytime soon, but they are definitely going to need lac's, Roland's, and Saganami's real soon now. I think it might still be a while before they will get up to building more Nike's though.

Rebuilding should go much faster in time of peace than when at war. Especially when you aren't throwing efforts down the drain because your enemy is destroying your efforts.

But this depends on certain factions of the government not coming to power and killing the budget.

I would HOPE that the Grantvills government enjoys a strong support in any rebuilding effort. Especially since any opposition party is probably still licking it's wounds after High Ridge and his supporters fell from grace

I think it has only been a couple of years since High Ridge & co were removed, and in that time a proper peace agreement has been made with the Havenites. One that actually has them as allies against Solly/Malign.

A short be relatively casualty free war against the Solly's has been fought and won. Plus, several new systems have become part of the nation. That means more tax revenue available to build the RMN (which means the burden of funding is no long exclusively on the 3 relatively small populations of the core Star kingdom), some investment in those systems will be needed, but those people saw joining Manticore as better than joining the Sollies, that has to give people a certain pride in their nation and most of that work to incorporate those systems was done under the Grantville government.

There have also been negatives in the form of the loss of home fleet and the Yawata strike, during that time, but I'm sure enough info has been released to Bill Manty to realize that predicting either attack was hard, if not impossible for the Strike. There was also the war with the Biggest nation in existence, but nobody liked sollies much anyway.

tlb wrote:There was a war conference of the Grand Alliance happening in one of the orbitals. The only reason Jacques Benton-Ramirez and Chou and Hamish Alexander-Harrington were not included in the count is that they were off in Jacques' new runabout. On page 677 of the hardback copy of UH is a partial list of military leaders (twelve including Patricia Givens and Thomas Caparelli) that died in the explosions.

The reason no BSDF units participated in operations is that they were all constructed to Solarian standards (despite Beowulf knowing better), so as to not give away secrets of the Grand Alliance.

Let me clarify then.

The Beowulf Navy did not take part in any active military operations against the League or the Alignment, before or after. The Republic of Beowulf has not declared war on anyone.

The Beowulf System was attacked during Operation Fabius, at which point they used their defensive systems.

Beowulf was producing components used in military hardware for the Grand Alliance. The Republic also placed an order for GA-quality warships, which were probably being built in Bolthole. I don't recall whether those actions happened before or after the independence referendum. Some hardware was probably built before, but it may be that it was generic. Either way, the League did not impose a limit on what Beowulf could export. Don't forget the League also did not declare war on Manticore, so even if there were laws against selling to an enemy belligerent, they wouldn't apply.

penny wrote:

Mycall4me wrote:So, I'm re reading the series and was up to Mission of Honor when I originally posted this thread. Now that I'm two thirds of the way through A Rising Thunder David shared some of the details about how having Beowolf, and Haven (and especially Bolthole) in the mix, will mean even the most optimistic estimates on rebuilding are going to be exceeded. He mentioned it as being years NOT decades, so that sounds good to me. After all they may not be building superdreadnaughts in the MBS anytime soon, but they are definitely going to need lac's, Roland's, and Saganami's real soon now. I think it might still be a while before they will get up to building more Nike's though.

Rebuilding should go much faster in time of peace than when at war. Especially when you aren't throwing efforts down the drain because your enemy is destroying your efforts.

But this depends on certain factions of the government not coming to power and killing the budget.

MyCall4Me wrote:I would HOPE that the Grantvills government enjoys a strong support in any rebuilding effort. Especially since any opposition party is probably still licking it's wounds after High Ridge and his supporters fell from grace

You and me both. But the thing is, we don't know what kind of horse-trading QEIII had to do to get her war funded. She might have promised concessions after the war is over in the form of cutbacks, social programs, etc. And the budget will already have to cover a lot of convoys of goods that will be sent to the new systems being added to the economy. Remember the convoy of goods that was initially sent to buy (ok entice) Grayson?

On top of that, Manticore is probably liable for a lot of businesses folding because of Lacoon. I always wondered about that. There was a question whether Manticore would be liable for those freight lines that would go under. But it is difficult for me to conceive of them not having insurance, and Manticore not having some sort of clause that exempts their liability in time of war. Although, insurance companies might have a policy of not paying out in case of war. Perhaps, or unless you have specific war insurance. Which might be prohibitively expensive.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Beowulf was producing components used in military hardware for the Grand Alliance. The Republic also placed an order for GA-quality warships, which were probably being built in Bolthole. I don't recall whether those actions happened before or after the independence referendum. Some hardware was probably built before, but it may be that it was generic. Either way, the League did not impose a limit on what Beowulf could export. Don't forget the League also did not declare war on Manticore, so even if there were laws against selling to an enemy belligerent, they wouldn't apply.

Actually that would depend on whether or not the League ever rescinded the military arms and equipment embargo they passed during the first war. That did make it illegal to sell warships, military equipment, or military technology to Manticore, Haven, or anyone else involved in their war.

We hear about it more from the Haven side; where they were having to circumvent the embargo to close the tech gap with Manticore -- but the embargo did apply to both sides. So, while that was in effect, it would have been illegal for Beowulf, or any citizen or corporation of Beowulf, to sell military items to Manticore. (Of course even if the League hadn't rescinded the embargo it wouldn't apply to Beowulf after they seceded from the League and then joined the GA)