The origin of neobarb

phillies wrote:The Correct Answer, of course, is to present all members of the Navy with the true facts of the matter:

First, the battle cruisers had previously found their way through mysterious means to the hands of another neobarbarian state. Instead of leaving well enough alone, the neobarbarian state had had the brilliant idea of reconfiguring engines, electronics, power supplies, and possibly even the location of the wine lockers, all presumably to improve what was known to be a flawless design. It is unsurprising that during these efforts minor technical errors were made. For example, based on some reports, it would appear that after replacing the power supplies someone forgot to rewire the point defense systems to a source of power.

Second, the reported ships in the battle are wildly at variance with a reasonable interpretation of what ships were actually present. For example, we are invited to believe that the Monica space navy had not one, not two, but perhaps sixteen or twenty battle cruisers. The actual number must have been two, one of which was being modified at the time of the battle. In addition our sources within the neobarbarian areas have confirmed that the commander of the hostile neobarbarian force was the same commander who had previously been involved in the alleged battle between one neobarbarian cruiser and four of our cruisers of similar size and age. The analysis of the previous battle demonstrated that the neobarbarian warship was a dreadnought, it was in the company of a squadron of other dreadnoughts, and most of the neobarbarian dreadnoughts in the battle were destroyed by cruisers of our design mysteriously translocated to the battlefield.

The most obvious demonstration of this is that in the prior battle the neobarbarian officer was commanding a dreadnought, neobarbarians are inherently incapable of learning from experience, and therefore never demote incompetent officers, and therefore the neobarbarian officer in question must still have been commanding a dreadnought.

It is still true that dreadnoughts never fly around by themselves, and therefore the neobarbarians must have had a squadron of dreadnoughts not to mention escorts. The neobarbarian mass advantage in this battle must have been approximately 40:1. Because only a single neobarbarian ship was honored as the victorious vessel of the battle, and only a few other vessels were noted as returning with damage, it appears that the neobarbarian side must have taken at least 50% losses destroyed and 50% losses severely damaged in this engagement, including most dreadnoughts engaged. On the other hand, the ship of our design with modifications was destroyed.

phillies wrote:The Correct Answer, of course, is to present all members of the Navy with the true facts of the matter:

The Solarian League Navy is Invincible

Recently, there has been interest in the alleged battle of Monica. If one were to believe unpublished reports, a variety of miscellaneous neobarbarian ships encountered and destroyed three battlecruisers of contemporary design. The asserted engagement is not necessarily believable.

However, a variety of sources indicate what actually happened, and confirm the well known irrefutable fact that the Solarian League Navy is totally invincible.

First, the battle cruisers had previously found their way through mysterious means to the hands of another neobarbarian state. Instead of leaving well enough alone, the neobarbarian state had had the brilliant idea of reconfiguring engines, electronics, power supplies, and possibly even the location of the wine lockers, all presumably to improve what was known to be a flawless design. It is unsurprising that during these efforts minor technical errors were made. For example, based on some reports, it would appear that after replacing the power supplies someone forgot to rewire the point defense systems to a source of power.

Second, the reported ships in the battle are wildly at variance with a reasonable interpretation of what ships were actually present. For example, we are invited to believe that the Monica space navy had not one, not two, but perhaps sixteen or twenty battle cruisers. The actual number must have been two, one of which was being modified at the time of the battle. In addition our sources within the neobarbarian areas have confirmed that the commander of the hostile neobarbarian force was the same commander who had previously been involved in the alleged battle between one neobarbarian cruiser and four of our cruisers of similar size and age. The analysis of the previous battle demonstrated that the neobarbarian warship was a dreadnought, it was in the company of a squadron of other dreadnoughts, and most of the neobarbarian dreadnoughts in the battle were destroyed by cruisers of our design mysteriously translocated to the battlefield.

It is entirely unbelievable that the same neobarbarian naval officer would find himself in two such engagements. The obvious conclusion is that the neobarbarian name in question is a nom de guerre randomly assigned to any neobarbarian officer who engages in a battle and is not totally wiped out. Alternatively, because of the neobarbarian use of hereditary offices, that neobarbarian officer in question had been reassigned to something harmless after his initial horrible defeat.

Just as in the prior battle, it is clear that the neobarbarian force was a squadron or more of dreadnoughts. The most obvious demonstration of this is that in the prior battle the neobarbarian officer was commanding a dreadnought, neobarbarians are inherently incapable of learning from experience, and therefore never demote incompetent officers, and therefore the neobarbarian officer in question must still have been commanding a dreadnought. It is still true that dreadnoughts never fly around by themselves, and therefore the neobarbarians must have had a squadron of dreadnoughts not to mention escorts. The neobarbarian mass advantage in this battle must have been approximately 40:1. Because only a single neobarbarian ship was honored as the victorious vessel of the battle, and only a few other vessels were noted as returning with damage, it appears that the neobarbarian side must have taken at least 50% losses destroyed and 50% losses severely damaged in this engagement, including most dreadnoughts engaged. On the other hand, the ship of our design with modifications was destroyed.

A reasonable estimate, given that other Monica space navy ships must have been involved, is that our ships are perhaps twenty times as effective on a mass basis as neobarbarian warships. Given the inherent limitations on such an estimate, this figure is consistent with the numbers generated on the basis of the prior battle.

cthia wrote:Somehow I think the term is borne out of emotion instead of logic. At one point the RHN was turning to the SLN for hardware. Why do they think that stopped? Surely their tech would always be better than anything any neobarbs could muster.

Jonathan_S wrote:

cthia wrote:Somehow I think the term is borne out of emotion instead of logic. At one point the RHN was turning to the SLN for hardware. Why do they think that stopped? Surely their tech would always be better than anything any neobarbs could muster.

First the SLN would know nothing of that, nothing; as selling of SLN hardware to the RHN would be illegal as it would violate the embargo against selling League military tech to either of the neobarbs involved. And obviously the paragons of virtue that are the men of the SLN wouldn't possibly have knowingly allowed such violations of the League's laws!

But in their minds I'm sure that the "non-existent" flow of such hardware to Haven must obviously stopped because the neobarb economy was so ramshackle they couldn't afford to continue buying. Beside, the invincible SLN's hardware is the best in existence and clearly Haven'd already acquired enough to defeat any (neobarb) opponent (they're still no danger to the invincible SLN itself -- because it has more and better hardware, plus and better training and superior crews).

cthia wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:First the SLN would know nothing of that, nothing; as selling of SLN hardware to the RHN would be illegal as it would violate the embargo against selling League military tech to either of the neobarbs involved. And obviously the paragons of virtue that are the men of the SLN wouldn't possibly have knowingly allowed such violations of the League's laws!

But in their minds I'm sure that the "non-existent" flow of such hardware to Haven must obviously stopped because the neobarb economy was so ramshackle they couldn't afford to continue buying. Beside, the invincible SLN's hardware is the best in existence and clearly Haven'd already acquired enough to defeat any (neobarb) opponent (they're still no danger to the invincible SLN itself -- because it has more and better hardware, plus and better training and superior crews).

That was pointed out in another thread. As I said in that other thread, I am not so sure the grapevine didn't talk, being that there was so much corruption and the fact that the good 'ole boy network seemed to be quite extensive in the SLN.

But I never said anything about selling hardware to them above board. And I wouldn't expect any hardware that was obtained to be anything but obsolete hardware.

But even obsolete SL hardware should be enough to defeat a mere neobarb Navy.

cthia wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:First the SLN would know nothing of that, nothing; as selling of SLN hardware to the RHN would be illegal as it would violate the embargo against selling League military tech to either of the neobarbs involved. And obviously the paragons of virtue that are the men of the SLN wouldn't possibly have knowingly allowed such violations of the League's laws!

But in their minds I'm sure that the "non-existent" flow of such hardware to Haven must obviously stopped because the neobarb economy was so ramshackle they couldn't afford to continue buying. Beside, the invincible SLN's hardware is the best in existence and clearly Haven'd already acquired enough to defeat any (neobarb) opponent (they're still no danger to the invincible SLN itself -- because it has more and better hardware, plus and better training and superior crews).

That was pointed out in another thread. As I said in that other thread, I am not so sure the grapevine didn't talk, being that there was so much corruption and the fact that the good 'ole boy network seemed to be quite extensive in the SLN.

But I never said anything about selling hardware to them above board. And I wouldn't expect any hardware that was obtained to be anything but obsolete hardware.

But even obsolete SL hardware should be enough to defeat a mere neobarb Navy.

Jonathan_S wrote:I seem to have failed at getting my tone through in text. Ah, well.
That was supposed to be a tongue in check comment from them; along the lines of a Sgt. Schultz style "I see nothing; nothing!"

Most likely there was reasonably widespread unofficial knowledge within the SLN that their suppliers were evading or violating the embargo to sell tech to Haven. The SLN would just refuse to admit that it knew any such thing

(Though as far as we know the transfers all were from Transstellars like Technodyne; selling Haven some of the same tech they sold, or tried to sell, to the SLN -- rather than the SLN itself being directly involved, or rather than even SLN surplus getting diverted to them in lieu of being properly scrapped. Which would of course make it easier for the SLN to assert its lack of knowledge)