Out of order snippet? WHAT out of order snippet?

No, it's not reasonable to believe that 1 day ofter the Manties arrived they were capable of doing that, without a single missile trace showing up anywhere.

Hell, I'm guess that the Manties hadn't even managed to get a single ship anywhere near a bunch of the places that were nuked.[/quote]

It is NOT reasonable that no missle trace showed up anyplace. And, there are places in the Mesa system that would have been recodring tactical sensor readings.
The MSN may have stood down and effectivly surrendered to the GA fleet, but they surely didn't turn off their passive sensors/tac net nor their recorders. So many of those Masan Navy ships anywhere close to the planet are going to have been (or should have been )able to see and get reads on the impellers of whatever caused those detonation IF they had involved either missles or KEWs. (I belivee the KEW are going to use impeller drives to manuver to delivery points and to control the speed of decent- which is how you control the yeald of the impact.
Perhaps all the newsies will discount any MSN statments as having been forced by the GA but the GA will also be able to get copies and, given that the MSN should have a much finer discrimination of they types of systems used in their own and in-system weapons in the Mesa system, the MSN not being able to have seen any tracks tends to confirm that none of this came down from orbit or outside the orbital spaces of Mesa.

Something won't be right. The question is always why.

Daryl wrote:Capturing isn't something that tree cats do well though.
Reducing threats to hamburger is more their style.

Not their style but they certainly could do it. Had they known what was up with the attempt on Honor Nimitz certainly could have captured him alive (assuming the nanotech permits that). He's executing a pre-programmed maneuver, he's not going to react meaningfully to a threat.

Go around the fire, jump up, shred his trigger finger. End of threat, live capture.

Brigade XO wrote:No, it's not reasonable to believe that 1 day ofter the Manties arrived they were capable of doing that, without a single missile trace showing up anywhere.

Mistletoe--stop outside the atmosphere. They certainly could do it. Why in the world would they, though?

kzt wrote:is the "AM" in "how the AM sees its priorities" a typo for "MA" or something else?

Typo. Should have been MA. I seldom use the abbreviation, which is probably why I didn't notice it when I proofed the post.

runsforcelery wrote:

kzt wrote:is the "AM" in "how the AM sees its priorities" a typo for "MA" or something else?

Typo. Should have been MA. I seldom use the abbreviation, which is probably why I didn't notice it when I proofed the post.

One reason I use MAlign. It's shorter than Mesan Alignment, it's almost impossible to get the initials out of order, and the wordplay makes it clear who's wearing the black hats.

runsforcelery wrote:[snip]

One of the "everyone knows" secrets of Mesa is that sometimes the official news has to be . . . tailored a bit in the interest of not encouraging additional servile rebellion, after all. So it's not like the citizens wouldn't have expected the GA to lie about its own actions after it invaded. And the off-world newsies covering the story are still feeling their way into the official explanation for what happened. There are, however, ways to explain away the absence of that visual evidence of missiles carrying out the strike.

As to what they are, though . . . .

I'm afraid you'll just have to read the book to find out.

(my bolding)

Read the book . . . Oh Yes. You really seriously can count on that
.

runsforcelery wrote:[snip]
There are, however, ways to explain away the absence of that visual evidence of missiles carrying out the strike.

Didn't Mike er, Admiral Gold Peak send in a destroyer in system on recon, better to have information than not, after all? Once that little tidbit gets out, all bets are off. Who knows what dastardly things that stealthy little bugger did or did not actually do. And the hardest thing to prove is a negative with no corroborating evidence.

I suspect that nobody is going to be able to convincingly disapprove the notion that Manticore was behind the latest nukes going off on Mesa...

But the real question is, how much does it matter???

Obviously it undermines Manticore's credibility with that sector of the Solly public which is already inclined to see Manticore in a dim light. But it is not going to establish credibility for the Mandrains or prevent the League from coming apart.

On Mesa itself it does not help the ruling class keep power, prevent the liberation of the slaves, or prevent the seccies from having a say or even becoming full voting citizens on a future Mesa.

It is a black mark on Manticore's record, but one which recedes with time as Manticore estabishes good relationships with liberated systems in the Verge and the Shell.

It appears to me that this incident has sharp short term inpact, but actually changes very little over the long haul.

Don

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n7axw wrote:I suspect that nobody is going to be able to convincingly disapprove the notion that Manticore was behind the latest nukes going off on Mesa...

But the real question is, how much does it matter???

Obviously it undermines Manticore's credibility with that sector of the Solly public which is already inclined to see Manticore in a dim light. But it is not going to establish credibility for the Mandrains or prevent the League from coming apart.

On Mesa itself it does not help the ruling class keep power, prevent the liberation of the slaves, or prevent the seccies from having a say or even becoming full voting citizens on a future Mesa.

It is a black mark on Manticore's record, but one which recedes with time as Manticore estabishes good relationships with liberated systems in the Verge and the Shell.

It appears to me that this incident has sharp short term inpact, but actually changes very little over the long haul.

Don

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I think it does impact the geopolitics over time.

Assuming that the SL is months away from being functionally a failed state. The local governments will organize their people but the central/federal government of the Solarian League is toast by the story arc's end in March. Whatever survivor/rump state organizations will be consolidating their neighbors into a regional defense pacts at the very least. Regional governments will also spring up.

Absent the blackening of the GA's reputation, many more Protectorates and independent systems in the Verge and Fringe would look to the GA as the organization to join in the upcoming times of chaos. Those polities would have grown much more rapidly under the GA umbrella than they would have under any other group. Even if down the road, the recognize the error of their ways, they would not be as able to assist the GA in whatever conflict that will manifests.

So, the story gets told regardless and whether the GA gets its reputation blackened or not is of little import from a story perspective. It will impact the size of the GA 20 years down the road when Raoul, Artemis and Jason begin their turn to battle the MAlign.

n7axw wrote:It is a black mark on Manticore's record, but one which recedes with time as Manticore estabishes good relationships with liberated systems in the Verge and the Shell.

It appears to me that this incident has sharp short term inpact, but actually changes very little over the long haul.

You should go to Derry in Northern Ireland and tell them all about how Bloody Sunday was just a one-time event and really has no long-term significance.