Escort Carrier Modification

Jonathan_S wrote:

cthia wrote:Thanks guys.

Jonathan, some sort of presser beam is the only explanation I could come up with. But I wanted to make sure, because when imagining the entire process removed from "on paper," it poses some interesting questions, not at all unlike the questions which arose when microscopically peering at the process of launching escape pods through shoals of debris.

For example, it must be a single presser beam or the entire operation would require a very large infrastructure simply to support a presser beam per LAC. And if it is indeed one presser beam then each LAC has to somehow be moved into position before launch. Does that imply some sort of rotary system? Similar to the same discussion about pods rotating before filling and launching? And, at what rate are they fired?

So, the ship's speed simply has to play a part in creating that separation, but I don't think the system can wholly rely upon that. Remember, your CLAC may have an initial low accel during launch because CLACs are held back for protection. But, if caught off guard they should be able to launch even while at rest.

Also, are CLACs similar enough to regular warships to launch LACs double broadside? Or is it a totally different design with huge LAC bays?

At any rate, nice posts!

Well the CLAC's acceleration can be beneficial to generating separation; their speed alone wouldn't be. There's (effectively) no friction in space, so if you launch a LAC out of a CLAC that's not accelerating it'll just coast right along with it; doesn't much matter if the CLAC is at standstill relative to the system or moving through it at 0.25c -- the LAC shares its velocity right up until the point of separation. Only acceleration after that point would generate separation.
(That's slightly unintuitive; as we're using to things on earth where air resistance rapidly robs them of their initial velocity, causing them to quickly fall behind a vehicle moving at constant velocity).

Still, the ship's acceleration can help achieve the separation a bit sooner. But, like I showed, the LAC alone should be able to separate from a stationary (or at least, non-accelerating) CLAC in barely more than a minute.

I'm envisioning a launch using 3 different propulsion mode sequentially in a minute or so (or less than half that if the CLAC also accelerates after separation).
1. A presser shoves the LAC backwards out of its bay to a couple hundred meters; far enough for thrusters to safely be used (The LAC can flip end for end as it's covering this distance).
2. The LAC then uses its thrusters to accelerate out to 1000 km or so; far enough for its wedge to be safely used.
3. Finally bring up its wedge, allowing it to acclerate away at over 600 gees.



We can see from the diagram of HMS Minotaur and her LAC bays, in the back of EoH that the CLAC has a two rows of LAC bays running down each broadside, and each bay is only slightly larger than a single LAC. 25 bays in each row; so 50 bays per broadside, and 100 bays total. Each of her 100 LACs docks and launches from its own bay, on the CLAC's broadside. Pull in forward to dock, back out stern first to launch.

Each bay and/or LAC would need its own launch hardware as there's no way to move them between bays [1] and there's no common hanger beyond the LAC bay. This isn't Battlestar Galactica's Viper hangers and launch tubes; it's more like the CLAC's broadsides is dotted with 100 separate little 1 LAC garages; each complete with garage door to close behind the LAC after it pulls in.


Fortunately pressers seem to be no larger than tractors; and we know a LAC carries several tractors. Heck, it's possible that presser is simple an alternate mode of the same tractor emitter.
So, I'm not sure if each bay has pressers to launch the docked LAC or if each LAC mounts its own pressers (and thus shoves itself backwards out of its bay). Still, the hardware doesn't appear to be large enough to cause any issues with having 100 sets to launch 100 LACs; especially since the pressor beams don't need to move the LAC far; just enough to let the LAC switch to thrusters.

I can't see any reason a CLAC couldn't launch LACs simultaneously from both broadsides. Though it probably doesn't want to launch all 100 at the exact same instant; that'd complicate the LAC's job of achieving sufficient mutual separation to light off their wedges. Spacing launches out a little is time and distance would actually lower to total time between first launch and final LAC engaging its wedge.


[1] Short of launching the LAC into space and having to return to a different bay

cthia wrote:Excellent points. And no, all of it isn't intuitive unless you're in that frame of mind. Which I wasn't.

I suppose it is better if CLACs accelerate to launch. It reminds me of aircraft carriers having to "steam" into the wind to launch fighters.

I wasn't aware that each LAC has its own launch tube. That makes things a lot simpler. Depending on accel, I'd think LACs would have to launch either simultaneously or from aft to fore to prevent any mishaps. It's all very interesting.

Theemile wrote:

cthia wrote:Excellent points. And no, all of it isn't intuitive unless you're in that frame of mind. Which I wasn't.

I suppose it is better if CLACs accelerate to launch. It reminds me of aircraft carriers having to "steam" into the wind to launch fighters.

I wasn't aware that each LAC has its own launch tube. That makes things a lot simpler. Depending on accel, I'd think LACs would have to launch either simultaneously or from aft to fore to prevent any mishaps. It's all very interesting.

It's not even a tube, just a garage with a retractable door. The CLAC Control probably controls the doors and the "ejection" pressors to make a smooth LAC Wing deployment.

Think of a parachute brigade. a C-17 has doors on both sides for parachutists to exit and a chute lanyard is connected in the plane so the chute is automatically opened as the paratrooper jumps out the door in a cadence. The troopers then float down and land in a formation with little interaction with each others as the plane flys forward.

Except in this case each LAC has a separate door which is opened in order for a clean deployment formation... and computer controls will keep them inline and fire up their wedges at the proper place/time for them to form up properly.

Jonathan_S wrote:Great, now I'm visualizing some bizarre choreographed video shot on a stereotypical suburban street. 8am every single garage door opens simultaneously, from each driveway identical family sedans back out, turning so they all interleave perfectly on the street, and in sync they all drive away to the office

Michael Everett wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:Great, now I'm visualizing some bizarre choreographed video shot on a stereotypical suburban street. 8am every single garage door opens simultaneously, from each driveway identical family sedans back out, turning so they all interleave perfectly on the street, and in sync they all drive away to the office

...Eerie Indiana?

Opening sequence had something similar with lawnmowers...

cthia wrote:On the flip side, CLACs have to retrieve LACs, or rather, LACs have to match velocity with the CLAC, and back into a garage that is moving perpendicular to their flight path. And sometimes this may have to be done under some very antsy conditions. Like incoming fire!

That would be like an F-14 trying to line up with the landing deck of a carrier that is skidding sideways.

I suppose the LAC can pull alongside a moving CLAC, match velocities then burn thrusters to change attitude before tractors "lock on and pull it in."

But if the CLAC is accelerating and maneuvering, and or if the LAC's thrusters have been damaged...

Jonathan_S wrote:

cthia wrote:On the flip side, CLACs have to retrieve LACs, or rather, LACs have to match velocity with the CLAC, and back into a garage that is moving perpendicular to their flight path. And sometimes this may have to be done under some very antsy conditions. Like incoming fire!

That would be like an F-14 trying to line up with the landing deck of a carrier that is skidding sideways.

I suppose the LAC can pull alongside a moving CLAC, match velocities then burn thrusters to change attitude before tractors "lock on and pull it in."

But if the CLAC is accelerating and maneuvering, and or if the LAC's thrusters have been damaged...

If it's under fire the LACs would presumably use their emergency escape maneuver -- using their onboard tractors to limpet themselves to the hull of the big boys just long enough for everybody to hyper out (and thus no longer be under fire)

Current doctrine is for CLACs to be detached after launching their brood; so they shouldn't be with the fleet if it's retreating under fire. (Hence the tactic above to get the LACs out of there without risking the CLACs)

So there shouldn't be any need for the CLAC to be maneuvering hard while recovering LACs. Still, whether or not it can probable comes down to how far beyond it's hull it can extend its compensation field. The LACs won't be able to provide their own (as their wedge has to be down during approach and docking); but once inside the CLAC's field they none of it's acceleration is felt by the LAC or crew. (So exactly the same as when their own wedge is up).

And we know the ships can extend their compensator field; though it costs them acceleration. That's what they're doing when towing pods.

So it would seem that the LACs just have to get themselves into the compensated zone; after that point the tractors have relatively little force to work against to suck the LAC the rest of the way into the hanger. And they could potentially do that by getting somewhat ahead of the CLAC and letting it (and it's compensation zone) come to them and scoop them up.

That field can clearly be extended far enough to make launching possible while the CLAC is acceleration (because we've seen them do that); but it might still be too tight for anyone to feel comfortable flying into before establishing tractors. (But you can't tractor while outside the compensation field if the CLAC is acceleration hard; at least not without turning the LAC crew to jelly)


Still, I suspect, since doctrine wouldn't have them trying to return to their hangers while under fire, that normal practice would be for the CLAC to cut accel during docking. It'd make everything easier to just coast for the few minutes of docking maneuvers.

cthia wrote:I doubt very seriously, though, that a CLAC can tow its full complement of CLACs outside its hull. That is just too much extra volume to compensate, I'd wager. But I think it is interesting that doctrine includes hitching a ride with other ships just long enough to get out of the hotzone.

At any rate, you've probably got doctrine pegged. Except, you've got to allow for a doctrine for when the shit has hit the fan, and the entire quadrant is stinky. Heck, retrieving LACs could take a long time if there has been a deadly battle with huge RMN losses. There will be LACs staggering back to the CLAC, limping with damage.

And, of course there are going to be times when CLACs will have to risk destruction to collect LACs.

You're not alone if you're thinking about the scene where Honor had to abandon Michelle.