Logic behind splitting Lacoon?

Hi SWM,

From UHH in the first anthology MTH, we have textev that the 'old league, presumably the 'core' extended out to 98 LY.

The reference to Yildin in SoS, IIRC, that it's near the boundary between the core and the shells is indeed interesting and implies the boundaries aren't uniform.

We don't know the depth of the shells [inner and outer], though I've suggested approximately 50-100 LY each, but that's just arbitrary on my part

Regarding a couple dozen wormholes within the whole volume of the SL; we now have several more named than the original 5 and hints there are many more so a couple dozen seems reasonable once RFC finishes telling us about all of them.

How many are in the SL proper, with the rest in the protectorate zone is another excellent question.

Commodore Magellan snags 3 we've never heard of with rather minor forces, implying more important ones were taken with larger forces, while still others were also taken with light forces.

I hope that helps.


L


[quote="SWM"][quote="lyonheart"]Hi SWM,

We have textev and RFC's posts that the SL is/was only 300-400 LY in diameter, so 150-200 LY radius.

The core or 'old league' extends some 60-98 LY from Sol [the last figure from UHH], so the shells go from there
while the protectorates extend out from them to around 400 LY from Sol.

We don't have detailed maps of the whole SL of where the shells stop and the protectorates begin, but the protectorates near the TQ are at least 200 LY deep.

L


[quote="SWM"]
A point of information, and a question.

First, the League is a lot bigger than 150-200 ly in radius. That is the size of the Core, not the entire League. If you count the Protectorates (which I think that text was intended to do), then the radius of the League is more like 400 ly.

Second, what evidence do you have that "dozens of wormhole termini" lie in the Solarian League? I believe we have evidence of less than a dozen.*quote**quote*
I'm looking at textev that Yildun is 183 ly from Sol, and is near the boundary between the Core and the Shell. Can you point to textev that the League is 300-400 ly in diameter? I think that's radius.

But you agree that the Protectorates extend out to 400 ly. You said that the League is only 150-200 ly and has dozens of wormholes in it. I'm saying that you need to include the Protectorates, because that's what David has done in the past when discussing the size of the entire League. But my main question is, where are you getting the figure of dozens of Wormhole termini inside the League? I see less than a dozen.*quote**quote*

Okay, so you're guessing that there are a couple dozen wormhole termini inside the League. You had been phrasing it as established fact, before. I just wanted to clarify what the facts were.

SWM wrote:Okay, so you're guessing that there are a couple dozen wormhole termini inside the League. You had been phrasing it as established fact, before. I just wanted to clarify what the facts were.

Didn't we have a quote at one point stating that there were ZERO junctions in SL space, only termini (and bridges)

Theemile wrote:

SWM wrote:Okay, so you're guessing that there are a couple dozen wormhole termini inside the League. You had been phrasing it as established fact, before. I just wanted to clarify what the facts were.

Didn't we have a quote at one point stating that there were ZERO junctions in SL space, only termini (and bridges)

We did, but that has pretty clearly been retconned, since Visigoth is a League member and has a junction with two termini.

A map with at least all of the wormholes and termini (including actual junctions as well as two wormholes near one system) would be REALLY helpful.

Brigade XO wrote:A map with at least all of the wormholes and termini (including actual junctions as well as two wormholes near one system) would be REALLY helpful.

I know this map was referenced more directly somewhere, and that SWM had a part of making it, bud didn't find the current direct URL:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... iverse.png

Does that show all of our currently known wormholes/junctions?

SharkHunter wrote:

Brigade XO wrote:A map with at least all of the wormholes and termini (including actual junctions as well as two wormholes near one system) would be REALLY helpful.

I know this map was referenced more directly somewhere, and that SWM had a part of making it, bud didn't find the current direct URL:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... iverse.png

Does that show all of our currently known wormholes/junctions?

No. Off the top of my head, there's the Roulette-Limbo bridge. Limbo is on the map, Roulette isn't. Roulette is said to be 63 light years from Beowulf, putting it in the same radius as Visigoth(~60ly).

There are other termini seized during Lacoon which aren't on the map.

SharkHunter wrote:

Brigade XO wrote:A map with at least all of the wormholes and termini (including actual junctions as well as two wormholes near one system) would be REALLY helpful.

I know this map was referenced more directly somewhere, and that SWM had a part of making it, bud didn't find the current direct URL:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... iverse.png

Does that show all of our currently known wormholes/junctions?

You know - taking a look at that map - there's a fine account of why someone may not want to bother taking the ends of the Visigoth-Mesa line. It's so very short compared to almost any other. Other wormholes get treated almost like junctions, practically, when their ends are that far from one another (Hennesy to Terra Haute, for example). So Lacoon II may have just shrugged that one off as being insufficiently important for the bother.

Alternatively, that map may have Visigoth misplaced? I was under the impression it was far closer to the core.

JeffEngel wrote:You know - taking a look at that map - there's a fine account of why someone may not want to bother taking the ends of the Visigoth-Mesa line. It's so very short compared to almost any other. Other wormholes get treated almost like junctions, practically, when their ends are that far from one another (Hennesy to Terra Haute, for example). So Lacoon II may have just shrugged that one off as being insufficiently important for the bother.

Alternatively, that map may have Visigoth misplaced? I was under the impression it was far closer to the core.

The map doesn't have Visigoth misplaced, it has Visigoth Unplaced -- the "short" wormhole from Mesa is marked "To Visogoth" and is merely a rough direction instead of a full depiction.

PS: The location of Mesa is probably incorrect as well; IIRC it is described as "surrounded by the League but not a Member"

also PS: Visigoth is described as a) a Core world and B) "only 60 light years from Beowulf." That would put Visigoth somewhere in the same half of the Core as Sigma Draconis and probable even with or north of SD. (i.e. not closer to Sol than Beowulf.) FWIW, I make SD/Beowulf about 60 ly south of the Core Boundary if the map is to scale.

JeffEngel wrote:

SharkHunter wrote:I know this map was referenced more directly somewhere, and that SWM had a part of making it, bud didn't find the current direct URL:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... iverse.png

Does that show all of our currently known wormholes/junctions?

You know - taking a look at that map - there's a fine account of why someone may not want to bother taking the ends of the Visigoth-Mesa line. It's so very short compared to almost any other. Other wormholes get treated almost like junctions, practically, when their ends are that far from one another (Hennesy to Terra Haute, for example). So Lacoon II may have just shrugged that one off as being insufficiently important for the bother.

Alternatively, that map may have Visigoth misplaced? I was under the impression it was far closer to the core.

That doesn't actually show Visigoth. It's an arrow leading away from Mesa pointing towards the core. We don't know the exact location of Visigoth, except it's about 60 light years away from Sigma Draconis. There's another similar arrow showing a wormhole bridge leading from Congo to SCG-902-36-G, whose actual location isn't known either.

One problem is that map doesn't seem to be to scale, particularly outside the Haven Quadrant. Space is three dimensional, which may explain why the Erewhon-Terra Haute bridge(marked as 390ly) is shorter than Erewhon-Joshua(359ly). The latter route must involve relatively little vertical change. The galaxy, after all, has an average thickness of between 1 and 2 thousand light years in our local region.

So the League is more of a sphere than a circle and that doesn't translate to a 2d map all that well, unfortunately. Check out all the problems we have mapping a globe's surface onto a flat piece of paper - now imagine adding everything below the crust as well.