Most hated character

Imaginos1892 wrote:The Mandarins.

They are the result of a process that has, for about a thousand years, selected administrators based solely on their ability to game the Solly bureaucracy. Like most parasites, Kolokoltsov and the rest have become so specialized that they are incapable of dealing with anything beyond it. As outside forces alter that environment, their inability to adapt causes them to keep going through the same familiar motions that always worked before. They are incapable of doing anything except "the same, only more and bigger" and don't understand why it's not working.

I like that analysis of the Mandarins. Double-plus good.

Dude, so 1984

SWM wrote:

Imaginos1892 wrote:The Mandarins.

They are the result of a process that has, for about a thousand years, selected administrators based solely on their ability to game the Solly bureaucracy. Like most parasites, Kolokoltsov and the rest have become so specialized that they are incapable of dealing with anything beyond it. As outside forces alter that environment, their inability to adapt causes them to keep going through the same familiar motions that always worked before. They are incapable of doing anything except "the same, only more and bigger" and don't understand why it's not working.

I like that analysis of the Mandarins. Double-plus good.

yannosh wrote:<<SNIP>>
It has been stated throughout the books that the sheer distances involved and lack of direct contact with their superiors it entails, forces the navies of honorverse to place a great degree of autonomy upon the serving officers.
<<SNIP>>

Part of the point here is that at the time of the actions at Hancock, Young was not out of contact with his superiors. They were right there. The fact that the RMN allows it's officers such leeway is dependent on the fact that there are extreme time lags in communications. Young's superiors were never more than seconds away. If there was any doubt about what he should do, Young should have requested clarification directly from Sarnow or Capt. Rubenstien. He made no effort to seek such clarification. The fact that the other 5 COs acted as if the order came from Sarnow also argues against him.

Military law is to civilian law as a Main Battle Tank is to an automobile. It is brutal, direct and singular of purpose instead of sleek and shiny. The sole purpose of military law is to protect the military. Once charges, especially such serious charges, are filed, it is extremely hard to get them dropped or changed. The only reason that the Admiralty became involved at all was that Adm. Parks thought he could not find enough impartial officers to empanel an impartial Court. Especially since he was the officer filing the charges. By transferring Young to Manticore, he was doing his best to ensure a fair trial for Young. The fact that it blew up in everyone's face is not his fault.

I can't hate the Mandarins. Their objective is simply to continue doing their jobs, and you could replace any of them with anybody and you're not likely to get different results. They simply didn't recognize what they faced, had no reason to recognize it before the fact (because it was so incredibly absurd to even contemplate the possibility that Manticore could or would fight, much less that it was technologically advanced enough to win), and responded to everything in basically the only ways they had available. Of the Mandarins, the only one I dislike is Rajampet, because he (1) was the only one of them whose responsibility it was to know better, (2) in failing to live up to that responsibility made the outcomes we got inevitable, and (3) while he probably would have made very similar mistakes to the ones he actually did, in accepting bribes he made avoiding war impossible (which, frankly, is probably to Manticore's interest as well as the Mesan Alignment's anyway).



I hate Pavel Young. And I hate his father.
I hate Cordelia Random (in a way that I really don't hate Pierre or Saint Just).
I hate Denver Summarvale.
I hate Andre Warnecke.

These people are not only indifferent to human suffering, they enjoy it for its own sake. That puts them on a special list of horrible.

Crown Loyalist wrote:I can't hate the Mandarins. Their objective is simply to continue doing their jobs, and you could replace any of them with anybody and you're not likely to get different results. They simply didn't recognize what they faced, had no reason to recognize it before the fact (because it was so incredibly absurd to even contemplate the possibility that Manticore could or would fight, much less that it was technologically advanced enough to win), and responded to everything in basically the only ways they had available. Of the Mandarins, the only one I dislike is Rajampet, because he (1) was the only one of them whose responsibility it was to know better, (2) in failing to live up to that responsibility made the outcomes we got inevitable, and (3) while he probably would have made very similar mistakes to the ones he actually did, in accepting bribes he made avoiding war impossible (which, frankly, is probably to Manticore's interest as well as the Mesan Alignment's anyway).



I hate Pavel Young. And I hate his father.
I hate Cordelia Random (in a way that I really don't hate Pierre or Saint Just).
I hate Denver Summarvale.
I hate Andre Warnecke.

These people are not only indifferent to human suffering, they enjoy it for its own sake. That puts them on a special list of horrible.

I know what you mean. it's been coined...evil incarnate!

Great admirals don't make wars great, bad admirals make great admirals' wars great.
-cthia

Ephraim Templeton

I simply deplore any type of abuse handed wives or women by men who fail to even deserve the air that they breathe.

I cheered for the Masadan wives that escaped but I was on pins and needles throughout the entire ordeal fearing they'd get caught.

When they managed to escape...such a tender moment for me.
But sad for the other's whom didn't make it out.

I was hoping for more of a mass exodus akin to Cerberrus.

Great admirals don't make wars great, bad admirals make great admirals' wars great.
-cthia

Posting on another thread reminded me of someone I just had to add: Emily Alexander-Harrington's mother. Seriously, what a $%@%$! Who wishes for their own child's death, or treats them as anything other than the best thing in the world? ALBRECHT DETWEILER IS A BETTER PARENT THAN YOU.

/rant

NortonIDaughter wrote:Posting on another thread reminded me of someone I just had to add: Emily Alexander-Harrington's mother. Seriously, what a $%@%$! Who wishes for their own child's death, or treats them as anything other than the best thing in the world? ALBRECHT DETWEILER IS A BETTER PARENT THAN YOU.
/rant

Darn! We all owe you a debt of gratitude for reminding us of omitting that b_ _ _ _!

NortonIDaughter wrote:Posting on another thread reminded me of someone I just had to add: Emily Alexander-Harrington's mother. Seriously, what a $%@%$! Who wishes for their own child's death, or treats them as anything other than the best thing in the world? ALBRECHT DETWEILER IS A BETTER PARENT THAN YOU.

/rant

Unfortunately, there are a lot of parents out there who fall short of the ideal. Part of the reaction might have been grief over the severity of the accident. Hopefully, her mother got over it, but words can cut even after a person has moved beyond using them.

Greentea wrote:

NortonIDaughter wrote:Posting on another thread reminded me of someone I just had to add: Emily Alexander-Harrington's mother. Seriously, what a $%@%$! Who wishes for their own child's death, or treats them as anything other than the best thing in the world? ALBRECHT DETWEILER IS A BETTER PARENT THAN YOU.

/rant

Unfortunately, there are a lot of parents out there who fall short of the ideal. Part of the reaction might have been grief over the severity of the accident. Hopefully, her mother got over it, but words can cut even after a person has moved beyond using them.

True, there are alot of parents that fall short of the mark.
But that kind of evil being borne of grief?... In my experience, I just can't buy that.

There's a difference between falling short of the mark and falling off of the mark.
I truly believe her mother meant what she said and that it never changed.