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Re: ?
Post by Jonathan_S   » Sun Oct 22, 2023 9:23 pm

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penny wrote:
Plus! Think about Fearless in the war games. A stealthy LAC can await prey like a hole in space and strike like Fearless in the wargames. Think of lots of Fearlesses with an Alpha brain onboard. Fearless had an Alpha's brain onboard as well. Multiply that by the thousands.

Fearless’s single clear win, and handful of simulated mutual kills, were a quarter century ago. Before fleets were routinely surrounded by hordes of LACs and shoals of long endurance recon drones. She’d never survive undetected into GL range these days. And even back then her original broadside of a half dozen or so CL-weight energy mounts wouldn’t have been a guaranteed kill against an SD that had lost its sidewall.
And, am I misremembering or was the graser torp graser (not withstanding its 3 second endurance) described as having the power of a CL’s graser; far weaker than then BC-class weapon carried by Shrikes?

Now maybe for your proposed MAlign LAC they could scale the tech up to something more powerful. Or maybe that’d just cause it to burn itself out quicker. I tend to doubt anyone can build an energy weapon that can reliably one-shot an SD; especially from the range any conventional drive ship can get to undetected.

But we’ll have to wait and see what RFC writes
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Re: ?
Post by tlb   » Sun Oct 22, 2023 9:42 pm

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Jonathan_S wrote:And, am I misremembering or was the graser torp graser (not withstanding its 3 second endurance) described as having the power of a CL’s graser; far weaker than then BC-class weapon carried by Shrikes?

Now maybe for your proposed MAlign LAC they could scale the tech up to something more powerful. Or maybe that’d just cause it to burn itself out quicker. I tend to doubt anyone can build an energy weapon that can reliably one-shot an SD; especially from the range any conventional drive ship can get to undetected.

But we’ll have to wait and see what RFC writes

From Mission of Honor:
Chapter 28 wrote:Whereas the Royal Manticoran Navy had concentrated on improving the efficiency of its standard laser heads, Daniel Detweiler's R&D staff had taken another approach. They'd figured out how to squeeze what amounted to a cruiser-grade graser projector into something small enough to deploy independently.

The power of the torpedo's graser wasn't remotely comparable to that of the weapon mounted by current-generation Shrikes, yet it was more powerful than any single bomb-pumped laser head.

The grasers on the Hastas at Dalton were not as powerful at that.
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Re: ?
Post by Relax   » Mon Oct 23, 2023 1:47 am

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2 different GRASER's.

1: On Very Large(whatever that means) Spider Torpedo with 3s of firing time which has hitting power of a "Cruiser Grade"

2: On a normal missile based system with a firing generated from a nuclear explosion with a firing time probably identical to a LASER based warhead. Strength of this GRASER compared to a normal LASER from same MegaTon Warhead detonation we do not know the strength as the lens focusing ability is... unknown. We do know that GRASERs on warships maintain their focus about ~30%-->40% greater range, but same hitting power as the LASER. TO keep things ~roughly the same in universe, I'll bet RFC/DW/1stSpaceLord master in chief sees this as just greater stand off range using old tech lens focusing grav tech of SLN which apparently the entire HV uses until the Manties came up with a better Grav lens tech.
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Re: ?
Post by penny   » Mon Oct 23, 2023 7:07 pm

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Relax wrote:2 different GRASER's.

1: On Very Large(whatever that means) Spider Torpedo with 3s of firing time which has hitting power of a "Cruiser Grade"

2: On a normal missile based system with a firing generated from a nuclear explosion with a firing time probably identical to a LASER based warhead. Strength of this GRASER compared to a normal LASER from same MegaTon Warhead detonation we do not know the strength as the lens focusing ability is... unknown. We do know that GRASERs on warships maintain their focus about ~30%-->40% greater range, but same hitting power as the LASER. TO keep things ~roughly the same in universe, I'll bet RFC/DW/1stSpaceLord master in chief sees this as just greater stand off range using old tech lens focusing grav tech of SLN which apparently the entire HV uses until the Manties came up with a better Grav lens tech.

Question. Is the grav tech that the Manties currently employ a factor, or partly a factor, of an increased energy budget?
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Re: ?
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Mon Oct 23, 2023 10:26 pm

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penny wrote:Question. Is the grav tech that the Manties currently employ a factor, or partly a factor, of an increased energy budget?


We don't know for sure, and in some ways definitely not.

We know that they generate fusion with gravitic compression, whereas our current fusion power generation methods are either magnetic confinement (tokamaks) or inertial confinement (what the LLNL's NIF did). So if they have a better gravitic technology, they could probably produce fusion with more efficient reactors. But we've never been told that this can be done or is related, and RFC has never even hinted at how the relationship would work. If it does, then this could be the reason why the Manties have managed to put a fusion reactor aboard a missile.

And in other ways, it isn't because we know the LACs are powered by fission and we've never been told that there's a relationship between fission and gravitics. Maybe you could use gravitics to focus the free particles that can cause fission, or it's the solution to the radiation problems. But that doesn't seem to be the reason why fission is a good solution. There's just something that the Graysons did because they continued exploring this "obsolete" technology.

We need Mr. Fusion. It was supposed to be available in 2015, alongside flying cars.
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Re: ?
Post by Theemile   » Tue Oct 24, 2023 8:55 am

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
penny wrote:Question. Is the grav tech that the Manties currently employ a factor, or partly a factor, of an increased energy budget?


We don't know for sure, and in some ways definitely not.

We know that they generate fusion with gravitic compression, whereas our current fusion power generation methods are either magnetic confinement (tokamaks) or inertial confinement (what the LLNL's NIF did). So if they have a better gravitic technology, they could probably produce fusion with more efficient reactors. But we've never been told that this can be done or is related, and RFC has never even hinted at how the relationship would work. If it does, then this could be the reason why the Manties have managed to put a fusion reactor aboard a missile.

And in other ways, it isn't because we know the LACs are powered by fission and we've never been told that there's a relationship between fission and gravitics. Maybe you could use gravitics to focus the free particles that can cause fission, or it's the solution to the radiation problems. But that doesn't seem to be the reason why fission is a good solution. There's just something that the Graysons did because they continued exploring this "obsolete" technology.

We need Mr. Fusion. It was supposed to be available in 2015, alongside flying cars.


I've been saving cans of half drank stale beer and banana peels for that moment....
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: ?
Post by tlb   » Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:37 am

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penny wrote:Question. Is the grav tech that the Manties currently employ a factor, or partly a factor, of an increased energy budget?

ThinksMarkedly wrote:We don't know for sure, and in some ways definitely not.

We know that they generate fusion with gravitic compression, whereas our current fusion power generation methods are either magnetic confinement (tokamaks) or inertial confinement (what the LLNL's NIF did). So if they have a better gravitic technology, they could probably produce fusion with more efficient reactors. But we've never been told that this can be done or is related, and RFC has never even hinted at how the relationship would work. If it does, then this could be the reason why the Manties have managed to put a fusion reactor aboard a missile.

There is some text in Storm from the Shadows about improved gravitic lensing, but it does not mention energy budget. However; since both missiles discussed are fusion powered, it would seem to follow that any such improvement applied to the reactor would also improve fusion output:
Chapter 30 wrote:But now, thanks primarily to fallout from the Star Kingdom's ongoing emphasis on improving its grav-pulse FTL communications capability, BuWeaps had completed field testing and begun production of a new generation of substantially more powerful gravity generators for the cruiser-weight Mark 16. In fact, they'd almost doubled the grav lens amplification factor, and while they were at it, they'd increased the yield of the missile warhead, as well, which had actually required at least as much ingenuity as the new amplification generators, given the way warheads scaled. They'd had to shift quite a few of the original Mark 16's components around to find a way to shoehorn all of that in, which had included shifting several weapons bus components aft, but Helen didn't expect anyone to complain about the final result. With its fifteen megaton warhead, the Mark 16 had been capable of dealing with heavy cruiser or battlecruiser armor, although punching through to the interior of a battlecruiser had pushed it almost to the limit. Now, with the new Mod G's forty megaton warhead and improved grav lensing, the Mark 16 had very nearly as much punch as an all-up capital missile from as recently as five or six T-years ago.
Producing the Mod G had required what amounted to a complete redesign of the older Mark 16 weapons buses, however, and BuWeaps had decided that it neither wanted to discard all of the existing weapons nor forgo the improvements, so Admiral Hemphill's minions had come up with a kit to convert the previous Mod E to the Mod E-1. (Exactly what had become of the Mod F designation was more than Helen was prepared to guess. It was well known to every tactical officer that BuWeaps nomenclature worked in mysterious ways.) The Mod E-1 was basically the existing Mod E with its original gravity generators replaced by the new, improved model. That was the only change, which had required no adjustments to buses or shifting of internal components, and the new warheads could be fused seamlessly into the existing Mark 16 weapons queues and attack profiles. Of course, with its weaker, original warhead it would remain less effective than the Mod G, since its destructiveness was "only" doubled . . . while the Mod G laser heads' throughput had increased by a factor of over five.
Note that the change from mod E to mod E-1 did not include a change to the reactor.

PS: There are also fusion reactors in shuttles and pinnaces which use laser compression, because these can be smaller than gravity compression reactors. They do not generate enough power for a spaceship, but are safer to use with people aboard than the even smaller mini-reactors.
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Re: ?
Post by Relax   » Tue Oct 24, 2023 11:55 am

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ONLY Manticore and GSN missiles MK16 and 23 are "micro" fusion powered instead of "capacitor fusion powered".... Amount of compressed "fusion" plasma they can store for energy budget.

At end of 1st Haven war, Manticore had superior Fusion Capacitors as well compared to rest HV. The MALIGN might have those. There was a blurb maybe in UH? or something around there?

Spider Torpedo biggest tonnage = carrying Power Capacity. Impeller Drive obtains MAJORITY power budget via wedge sump, not its fusion power capacitors(missile or drone) Maybe DW pictures spider drive partially sucking power out of alpha wall interactions. Got me.

Since missile tech is handwavium, so is Spider drive missile tech.

Shuttles have baby Lasers and they check in ~@1000t or so. A ~10kton old style LAC sports a Cruiser grade LASER. Spider Graser Torp +++1000t???
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Re: ?
Post by Theemile   » Wed Oct 25, 2023 12:09 pm

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Relax wrote:ONLY Manticore and GSN missiles MK16 and 23 are "micro" fusion powered instead of "capacitor fusion powered".... Amount of compressed "fusion" plasma they can store for energy budget.

At end of 1st Haven war, Manticore had superior Fusion Capacitors as well compared to rest HV. The MALIGN might have those. There was a blurb maybe in UH? or something around there?

Spider Torpedo biggest tonnage = carrying Power Capacity. Impeller Drive obtains MAJORITY power budget via wedge sump, not its fusion power capacitors(missile or drone) Maybe DW pictures spider drive partially sucking power out of alpha wall interactions. Got me.

Since missile tech is handwavium, so is Spider drive missile tech.

Shuttles have baby Lasers and they check in ~@1000t or so. A ~10kton old style LAC sports a Cruiser grade LASER. Spider Graser Torp +++1000t???


Pinnances are 250Tons, Assault shuttles, sub 500tons. laser on a pinnance is a 2cm laser, a DD broadside laser is a 20-30cm laser, CL Graser is a 40 or 60 CM, a Shrike's Graser is a 150CM

That DD Broadside laser probably weighs 150-250 tons alone. (They only mount 6-8 of them)
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: ?
Post by Relax   » Wed Oct 25, 2023 1:22 pm

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Curious:
Are those tonnages from SITS? I can't remember where in any books shuttle or pinnace tonnages were ever discussed other than PEEP shuttles were much heavier than their Manticoran counterparts with much heavier armament.

I think for size of LASER or GRASER the only book numbers we have is a Condor 2cm or is it 10cm in SFTS? pinnace and the LAC of 1.5m? in introduction to LAC? Believe DW wrote a post somewhere.
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