Fortress Command

could be post Cerberus or it could be when Honour was given command of the squadron of q-ships.

she spent a chunk of time with various people @ buships then including hemphill, i think

Dafmeister wrote: I think there's something in one of the later books where Honor hears Hemphill's side of the story in person, after she gets back from Cerberus, but I can't be sure.

At All Costs - a briefing meant mostly as an introduction to Apollo, but which Hemphill used early on to get that air finally clear. (Curiously, that air hadn't been cleared in Honor's WDB stint between Honor Among Enemies [while she had maternity leave as Samantha's mate's bonded two-leg] and In Enemy Hands [when she came back to Grayson and ripped Hamish a new one {politely-ish} for his knee-jerk dismissal of modern LAC's and SD(P)'s.])

Hemphill's a whole lot better than Horrible, but that's still a peculiarly long time to leave a peer she can respect, despite some political differences and problematic personal associations, in the dark about those circumstances. I think she may have been gritting her teeth and holding her tongue til after cousin Edward was dead and there wouldn't be trouble there letting the truth be told. It's possible she had subordinates or friends let an understanding that way get to Honor or her friends indirectly and deniably sooner.

JeffEngel wrote:At All Costs - a briefing meant mostly as an introduction to Apollo, but which Hemphill used early on to get that air finally clear. (Curiously, that air hadn't been cleared in Honor's WDB stint between Honor Among Enemies [while she had maternity leave as Samantha's mate's bonded two-leg] and In Enemy Hands [when she came back to Grayson and ripped Hamish a new one {politely-ish} for his knee-jerk dismissal of modern LAC's and SD(P)'s.])

Hemphill's a whole lot better than Horrible, but that's still a peculiarly long time to leave a peer she can respect, despite some political differences and problematic personal associations, in the dark about those circumstances. I think she may have been gritting her teeth and holding her tongue til after cousin Edward was dead and there wouldn't be trouble there letting the truth be told. It's possible she had subordinates or friends let an understanding that way get to Honor or her friends indirectly and deniably sooner.

Or it's a question of difference in rank. Whatever her rank in the aristocracy, when Honor was at WDB she was only a Captain of the List, while Hemphill's been a four-star Admiral since OBS, so whatever Honor really felt she'd have had to at least appear to accept Hemphill's explanation. By AAC Honor's a four-star as well, so Hemphill was able to speak to her as an equal.

JeffEngel wrote:Curiously, that air hadn't been cleared in Honor's WDB stint between Honor Among Enemies

I don't think Adm Hemphill was at the WDB at that time. She did do a stint in fleet command although I don't recall the exact timing.

Weird Harold wrote:

JeffEngel wrote:Curiously, that air hadn't been cleared in Honor's WDB stint between Honor Among Enemies

I don't think Adm Hemphill was at the WDB at that time. She did do a stint in fleet command although I don't recall the exact timing.

I think she was still at WDB at that point - I think we see Hamish being surprised at how well Honor and Hemphill worked together when Honor briefs him on Ghost Rider, the MDM/SD(P) project and Project Anzio at the beginning of IEH. IIRC, Hemphill went out to Grendelsbane as station commander once the new hardware moved into series production.

No. Hemphill was already out there somewhere - I'm not 100% sure it was Grendelsbane yet - when Operation Stalking Horse went in. Wesley Matthews tells her to hold in place, while he takes care of relieving the systems that were captured.

And nobody who has actually read OBS with a modicum of attention should be thinking Hemphill had Fearless swept under the rug. Jim Webster disabuses Hamish of that notion the first time we meet them, when Webster asks him to check out what the Government's _real_ attitude to Honor's ops in Basilisk is, as opposed to his immediate superior's:

""What?" Alexander chuckled. "You mean the one who potted Sebastian with a single broadside?"
"That's the one," Webster agreed with an unwilling grin of his own. Then he sobered. "At the moment, Commander Harrington is Acting Senior Officer on Basilisk Station."
"She's what? What in God's name is an officer who can pull off something like that doing on Basilisk Station?!"
"It wasn't my idea," Webster protested. "It came down from on high, one might say, after Sonja's brainchild proved something of a brat in the later Fleet problems."
"Oh, so she decided to sweep her mistake under the carpet, whatever it cost the officer who actually made it work once for her?" Alexander's disdain was clear, and Webster shrugged.
"I know you don't like Sonja, Hamish. For that matter, I'm not too crazy about her myself, but I really don't think it was her idea this time. I think it was Janacek. You know how that reactionary old—" Webster caught himself. "I mean, you know he watches after the family interests."
"Um." Alexander nodded, and Webster shrugged again.
"Anyway, he made his desires known, and I was too busy horse-trading with him on the new engineering wing for Saganami Island to say no."" [OBS ch 12]

Dafmeister wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:I don't think Adm Hemphill was at the WDB at that time. She did do a stint in fleet command although I don't recall the exact timing.

I think she was still at WDB at that point - I think we see Hamish being surprised at how well Honor and Hemphill worked together when Honor briefs him on Ghost Rider, the MDM/SD(P) project and Project Anzio at the beginning of IEH. IIRC, Hemphill went out to Grendelsbane as station commander once the new hardware moved into series production.

Since most of the Fortresses we know about are parked around the Junction and their termini and that is controlled by Astro Control, wouldn't the forts be manned by Navy personnel assigned to that command chain instead of regular Fleet? Granted, they all fall under "Big Navy" to my understanding, but to me that'd make more sense, especially since Astro Control manages the traffic going through the Junction.
I don't mean to imply that Astro Crontrol is Honor-era's version of MPARS. MPARs was desinged as a rival military force to the RMN, where ACS is a "civilian agency." How much of a civilian agency is it? They already have a merchant marine, so that can't explain it. Otherwise, it was never really defined or drawn out on an organizational chart.
Why not simply reassign officers "unfit for independent command" to Astro Control since it uses the same uniform and rank structure as the regular Navy?

ChronicRder wrote:Since most of the Fortresses we know about are parked around the Junction and their termini and that is controlled by Astro Control, wouldn't the forts be manned by Navy personnel assigned to that command chain instead of regular Fleet? Granted, they all fall under "Big Navy" to my understanding, but to me that'd make more sense, especially since Astro Control manages the traffic going through the Junction.
I don't mean to imply that Astro Crontrol is Honor-era's version of MPARS. MPARs was desinged as a rival military force to the RMN, where ACS is a "civilian agency." How much of a civilian agency is it? They already have a merchant marine, so that can't explain it. Otherwise, it was never really defined or drawn out on an organizational chart.
Why not simply reassign officers "unfit for independent command" to Astro Control since it uses the same uniform and rank structure as the regular Navy?

Astro Control is a civilian agency, essentially doing work like air traffic controllers with the wormhole junction being airspace and the volumes near a terminus being airports. They're there to keep people from colliding and going through in a safe and orderly fashion.

Fortress Command is a part of the navy, to do with operating the units there to apply force and maintain the local monopoly on it.

That ACS has military-style ranks is much like (e.g.) police forces having them, just naval rather than army style. It doesn't make them a branch of the navy, or an appropriate organizational spot to drop the most powerful somewhat mobile military vehicles in human history. Compare giving things like that to air traffic control or police departments. They just don't have problems that demand that kind of response. They may work near people who do, and even share the same rank structure. They may have to cooperate with them for certain functions, and they may share some skills, but it's a very different job nonetheless.

Some people who wash out of the RMN may still be suitable for some jobs in Astro Control (heck, the reverse may be true too, though no likely examples spring to mind), but that's getting out of the Navy. Before FTL communications, I imagine the senior ACS positions would be places where responsible independent thinkers would be needed or at least greatly desired too. In emergencies, they may have to make decisions with diplomatic implications without being able to kick it upstairs. Naturally, it's not nearly as pronounced as someone off in (e.g.) Montana (the star system!), but the pressure of a quick call can make up for the comparatively short communications length back to the head office.

Louis R wrote:No. Hemphill was already out there somewhere - I'm not 100% sure it was Grendelsbane yet - when Operation Stalking Horse went in. Wesley Matthews tells her to hold in place, while he takes care of relieving the systems that were captured.

And nobody who has actually read OBS with a modicum of attention should be thinking Hemphill had Fearless swept under the rug. Jim Webster disabuses Hamish of that notion the first time we meet them, when Webster asks him to check out what the Government's _real_ attitude to Honor's ops in Basilisk is, as opposed to his immediate superior's:

""What?" Alexander chuckled. "You mean the one who potted Sebastian with a single broadside?"
"That's the one," Webster agreed with an unwilling grin of his own. Then he sobered. "At the moment, Commander Harrington is Acting Senior Officer on Basilisk Station."
"She's what? What in God's name is an officer who can pull off something like that doing on Basilisk Station?!"
"It wasn't my idea," Webster protested. "It came down from on high, one might say, after Sonja's brainchild proved something of a brat in the later Fleet problems."
"Oh, so she decided to sweep her mistake under the carpet, whatever it cost the officer who actually made it work once for her?" Alexander's disdain was clear, and Webster shrugged.
"I know you don't like Sonja, Hamish. For that matter, I'm not too crazy about her myself, but I really don't think it was her idea this time. I think it was Janacek. You know how that reactionary old—" Webster caught himself. "I mean, you know he watches after the family interests."
"Um." Alexander nodded, and Webster shrugged again.
"Anyway, he made his desires known, and I was too busy horse-trading with him on the new engineering wing for Saganami Island to say no."" [OBS ch 12]

Aha... nice catch on that one.

ChronicRder wrote:Since most of the Fortresses we know about are parked around the Junction and their termini and that is controlled by Astro Control, wouldn't the forts be manned by Navy personnel assigned to that command chain instead of regular Fleet? Granted, they all fall under "Big Navy" to my understanding, but to me that'd make more sense, especially since Astro Control manages the traffic going through the Junction.
I don't mean to imply that Astro Crontrol is Honor-era's version of MPARS. MPARs was designed as a rival military force to the RMN, where ACS is a "civilian agency." How much of a civilian agency is it? They already have a merchant marine, so that can't explain it. Otherwise, it was never really defined or drawn out on an organizational chart.
Why not simply reassign officers "unfit for independent command" to Astro Control since it uses the same uniform and rank structure as the regular Navy?

MPARS and ACS are the equivalent of many of the Coast Guards today, take the US Coast Guard it is a civilian agency with military ranks and armed ships that does provide traffic control inside and outside major ports and conducts armed patrols in a law enforcement role along with Search and Rescue.