Human Treecat Names

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

cthia wrote:Why can't someone be kidnapped like LT. Meares was kidnapped and infect them with nanites in the same way, but also install a device that digitally records everything seen and heard. Like the device the Klingons secretly installed in Geordi's visor to see the frequency of the shields when he went down to engineering and glanced at the screen.

Tim Meares wasn't kidnapped. All that happened to him was that his cab driver blew a nanite smoke puff on him without him ever realising that it was a problem. That was such an innocuous happenstance that it would never occur to him that he was being compromised, so he'd report to RMN security. Someone who's been kidnapped should never be let back on duty until fully cleared by a panel that includes toxicological and psychological screening.

Star Trek is not very realistic in that sense. I watch it and enjoy it (especially SNW nowadays), but I am really sad that the Pocket Books late-24th century stores were brushed aside for Star Trek: Picard, which is not good sci-fi. The books had their flaws, but they were at least consistently above the majority of Picard and Discovery plotlines.

Back in the HV, I suppose the MAlign could have some other techniques up their sleeves that would allow them to hide the fact that someone was kidnapped in the first place. But those may themselves have flaws: we know that compulsion can be detected by treecats (see Princess Adrienne's short story); any new technique the MAlign has come up with is therefore untested against treecats, so they wouldn't know for sure that detection is impossible.

But granting them that it works, what do they gain about it? Finding the location of Bolthole would be a major coup, but not very actionable. The Sanctuary system is surrounded by thick clouds of gas, so a ship passing through will be detectable, stealth or no stealth. It's also defended against all conventional attacks, so the RF couldn't send marshall a force strong enough to take it out -- not even if they combined with all of Galton and the SLN had prior to their respective surrenders.

This is even assuming they can tell the location. Most people aboard ships going to Bolthole won't know where they're going. They may be able to report how long the trip took and that it involved a wormhole transit, but not where it led unless they had access to navigational charts, which one be lying around.

cthia wrote:They wouldn't have to kidnap their own people. You just install the device during the next series of doctor's appts, or dental appts when they are put to sleep. Also, the nanites themselves wouldn't store the knowledge. A chip installed somewhere in the brain would store the wealth of knowledge.

tlb wrote:Finding the location of bolthole would leave it open to a Oyster Bay type of attack. A low speed ballistic entry would not affect the dust clouds enough to be detectable and the orbital factories and shipyards would be easy to find.

tlb wrote:Finding the location of bolthole would leave it open to a Oyster Bay type of attack. A low speed ballistic entry would not affect the dust clouds enough to be detectable and the orbital factories and shipyards would be easy to find.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:I doubt it. It would need to be slower than Voyager 1 to not disturb the dust clouds. That means it would take a year or two to cross them. The next problem is that the stealth ships need to emit excess heat in some direction, but all directions reflect back in a scattered fashion due to those clouds.

tlb wrote:If the person does not work for the Malign, then they would wonder about brain surgery occurring at a dentist (or a routine doctor's visit). Note that the chip might have to store a year's worth of audio-visual data, depending on the length of a normal stay at Bolthole.

Somtaaw wrote:Home Fleets are about the only ones who regularly got to go on shore leave, purely because it seems to be a rarity home systems are actually attacked, and you need some way to make such duties more appealing. Being able to hit the local bars once every 2-3 weeks, instead of once every 2-3 T-years is a fairly good incentive no?


Since the wormhole connecting to Bolthole isn't directly connected to anything major, it's a safe bet that any ships tasked with directly protecting Bolthole are "there for duration". Since it's also a major shipyard, you can't even 'pull a Pavel Young' and leave post for 'urgent repairs'. You get to leave Bolthole once every 3-4 T-years as part of regular leave, but otherwise you're stuck there.

Jonathan_S wrote:

Somtaaw wrote:Home Fleets are about the only ones who regularly got to go on shore leave, purely because it seems to be a rarity home systems are actually attacked, and you need some way to make such duties more appealing. Being able to hit the local bars once every 2-3 weeks, instead of once every 2-3 T-years is a fairly good incentive no?


Since the wormhole connecting to Bolthole isn't directly connected to anything major, it's a safe bet that any ships tasked with directly protecting Bolthole are "there for duration". Since it's also a major shipyard, you can't even 'pull a Pavel Young' and leave post for 'urgent repairs'. You get to leave Bolthole once every 3-4 T-years as part of regular leave, but otherwise you're stuck there.

Even other fleets are usually anchored in an inhabited system (or in Manticore's case at terminus of the Junction) where shore leave can be granted. (And when they aren't I'm sure the navies realize that some kind of off-ship R&R facilities are needed. (Look at the effort the USN went to create them in the Pacific during WWII)

Sure, during OBS-era there probably wasn't any shore leave back to Manticore - and any shore leave of Basilisk would be pretty limited in what you could do. But with 8th fleet back for weeks at a time between raids I'd be surprised if there wasn't some shore leave to San Martin -- or even a rotation of crew getting weekend passes that would allow them to get briefly back to Manticore, Sphinx, or Gryphon. (Or just spend more time drinking and partying on San Martin )

And at Bolthole you've got the whole planet of Sanctuary where you could grant the defending fleet's sailors shore leave. That's an old and pretty populous colony -- it's going to have plenty of places where sailors can blow off steam. So it's not like they'd be stuck on their ship, or a naval yard, for the entire duration of their tour.

Jonathan_S wrote:And at Bolthole you've got the whole planet of Sanctuary where you could grant the defending fleet's sailors shore leave. That's an old and pretty populous colony -- it's going to have plenty of places where sailors can blow off steam. So it's not like they'd be stuck on their ship, or a naval yard, for the entire duration of their tour.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:And at Bolthole you've got the whole planet of Sanctuary where you could grant the defending fleet's sailors shore leave. That's an old and pretty populous colony -- it's going to have plenty of places where sailors can blow off steam. So it's not like they'd be stuck on their ship, or a naval yard, for the entire duration of their tour.

Even if the fleet is continuously at deployment somewhere remote, it doesn't mean all ships in it are continuously there. Some ships can be replaced with others, which are sent back for maintenance and refit, whereupon the crew can be granted liberty or shore leave. We have multiple instances of admirals discussing the fact that they needed to account for ships in transit in their plans. It's also one of the death knells for the frigate.

Similarly, an entire crew's complement need not be 100% dedicated to the ship while the ship is at station. Unless the ship is on alert condition, it's possible that some crew members are rotated in and out, due to promotions and reassignments, but also due to their leave time accruing. Some of those may get shipped all the way back to a home port where they can get a full leave.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

tlb wrote:Finding the location of bolthole would leave it open to a Oyster Bay type of attack. A low speed ballistic entry would not affect the dust clouds enough to be detectable and the orbital factories and shipyards would be easy to find.

I doubt it. It would need to be slower than Voyager 1 to not disturb the dust clouds. That means it would take a year or two to cross them. The next problem is that the stealth ships need to emit excess heat in some direction, but all directions reflect back in a scattered fashion due to those clouds.