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Re: Attacking Darius: | |
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Brigade XO
Posts: 3238
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1) The woman who was afraid of being killed at Darius. A Houdini relocation. She's a strategy and tactics person....she KNOWS about the spider drives, the GTorps and all sorts of other things and she was tasked to game out on the computer in that giant simulator how to DEFEND as system which is clearly a vast industrial operation and weapons producer but is specifically NOT ALLOWED to have ANY of the Alignments most advanced weapons and ships. NONE
She has all sorts of info the Alignment has on the GA so far and she is not just hamstrung with lack of spider drives and the GTorps, we don't see any Ghost type ships and nothing beyond the Hasta. Ok, I don't recall if she knew what Galton was able to do with Hosta. WHY was she afraid? She had figured out that she was gaming this out and this was a major unknown system and they were going to get devastated regardless of what they did unless they at least had the existing depleted advance ships and weapons. And there was NO planning for getting anybody out. She (and she thinks about it we got to read it) is now afraid to even think about what she knows what all of this means because then she will become a security risk and she has seen (watched the other Houdini freighter suicide and the GAUL who was the guard on her ship was going to kill her and McBride. I believe she is hoping that she doesn't just get killed when the project is finished because the Alignment is letting all sorts of desperate tactics get used in her scenarios and they won't allow her to use the only things that might give a chance that it won't be hammered to bits. As far as the GA not doing anything about the AlignmentsOyster Bay weapons, they are, just they don't know enough about what they are facing. We listen to Hamish walkabout the new stations being built with either full time sidewalls or various shielding schemes. But nobody can yet detect either the wepons (primarily the GTorps ) or the ships that launched them. Hamish also brought up the idea that, as devastating as the attack at Grayson and Manticore was, it wasn't what it could have been........nothing else was hit....no other SEM systems, not the Peeps, not the SLl, not the Andies. So this was a sneak attack of an unknown entity that doesn't appear to have been ready. Sure, Manticore etc don't know what the Alignment's plans are, but SEM and Grayson really worried them so they struck with and where they could with probably as much as they were able to do at the time. The other thing the GA -and now the SLN- along with Beowulf is doing is actively hunting for "the other guys". Stealthily hunting and working though leads to track down what they know exists even if it's not clear exactly what the other side wants. There are other things that now look odd to the Ghost Hunters and the GA teams.....just like the Genetic Slave business didn't ultimately make any sense in terms of money, now that Manpower and some other pieces have been swept away, what is it that the "Alignment" actually wants. They don't actually seem to want to capture systems and build an empire because so much of what they were doing was ultimately just corrupting governments (or feeding their corruption and localized holding systems as petty dictators for life. This isn't politics and military aggression, it's .............unclear what the motivation is. When the GA finds Darius? Probably the best thing would to slip a Nova Device into the star and sterilize the system but RFC doesn't do things like that so nobody in the Honorverse has anything like that. But after all that has gone on and now what happened at Galton with the fake surrender.....who is going to trust anything done by a group who outfits anybody they deal with with nanite suicide divics (a lot of these are equipped without their knowledge or consent) and routinely destroys almost anything to hide it's tracks. No clue how this is going to work out. |
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kzt
Posts: 11360
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The entire RMN was constructed and maintained by not more then 4 million people. About 7 million were killed when the blew up the platforms, but how many of them were kids, bartenders or ‘entertainers’? So no, that is an absurdity slow build rate. If they have the crews to man them they can build at the rate the RMN built SDs. And rember the Queen mentioning what she’d do if an invisible she suddenly appeared in orbit around Manticore and demanded surrender? What if a couple of 30mt LDs appeared in orbit around Manticore and demanded surrender? |
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penny
Posts: 1478
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I didn't get that memo either. The last memo I got from the author on that subject stated that no entity will contemplate destroying planets, EXCEPT in the face of utter defeat and helplessness. Factor in the entity in question and we should all be hiding in our basements. Besides. Do recall what happened when the US dropped nukes on Japan. How much of each planet is destroyed will depend on the victim's intransigence. It is like pouring someone else's whiskey. "Say when." Japan said 'when' after Hiroshima and Nagasaki. One thing is for certain. We all have always agreed on one thing. The LDs were certainly developed to sit on the outskirts of town and toss torpedoes. They will show Honor how it's done. .
. . The artist formerly known as cthia. Now I can talk in the third person. |
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penny
Posts: 1478
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The Darius System War Room Looking into the star map. "Three here. Three here. Three here. Three here. Three here. And three ... here. That's what?" "Eighteen sir." "Hmmm... better send two extra LDs to the MBS to cover those damn resourceful Manticorans. They have one of our Alphas. That makes twenty. Let's go ahead and allocate an extra LD to give us a full hand of twenty-one." If the MA has done their due diligence and knows about Bolthole, they will certainly be aware of any other bridges that need destroying. I'd like to know how they'll use the Streak Boats to tackle the Two General's Problem. With Solly tech and intransigence and SLN hubris, Sol's infrastructure can be taken out with a squadron of Ghosts. .
. . The artist formerly known as cthia. Now I can talk in the third person. |
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tlb
Posts: 4771
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We have discussed this situation before. The traditional view is that a planet is expected to surrender when the enemy captures the low orbitals. However this presupposes that the home fleet has been destroyed by the enemy on the way to the planet, a prerequisite that the Malign might well have skipped. Obviously we do not expect the Malign to restrain themselves when bombarding the planet, so the first thing we will discover is whether those elusive planetary forts exist. Let's suppose that they are destroyed. We know that the palace has weapons and the LD's are likely to be visible as targets, so the palace will have to be destroyed. I do not expect the Queen will surrender; if still alive and on the verge of capture, then I expect she will abdicate. So the question becomes, what happens when the fleet arrives? We will find out how useful a spider drive weapon is against the remaining weapons of Manticore. At most the Malign will capture the home planet without getting the rest of the empire. |
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penny
Posts: 1478
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Thanks for the reminder Brigade! I had completely forgotten about her. It is odd that she was tasked to game out the defense of Galton, and not the Darius Admiralty. Especially if there is paranoia about her participation. I need to reread that passage. Anyway, I recall wondering what her defense plan of Darius would be. We need more info on her. Where did she get her expertise? I really need a reread of that passage. Hmmm... how 'bout now. .
. . The artist formerly known as cthia. Now I can talk in the third person. |
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tlb
Posts: 4771
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So you didn't read where I talked about her in this thread? I haven't tracked it down, but she is an expert on weapons and strategy. Around the passages where she and Zachariah McBryde are being evacuated from Mesa, I believe her status is explained. So if they plan to kill her after the expected result, then that is probably why they did not use the Admiralty. Killing all of them which would be much more noticeable. Which goes back to I was saying about not understanding what might be going through the minds of the leadership at Darius. If they are going to be bad, then there is no reason to get rid of her. However if they going to pretend to be good, then they need to move tons of stuff to some new location and why couldn't that include her? The only thing I can guess is that they will pretend to be good, but without a spider hole to put the bad things; which means that a lot of stuff needs to be secretly destroyed, including Gail. According to the wiki, you can find about her in Cauldron of Ghosts. |
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penny
Posts: 1478
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What is the build rate of RMN SDs? .
. . The artist formerly known as cthia. Now I can talk in the third person. |
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Jonathan_S
Posts: 9049
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The first few of a brand new design would take longer and, based on how they do in builder's and acceptance trials, they might need to go back into the yard for modifications -- and the rest of the tranche modified on the stocks. But once the design issues are worked out and the yards hit their stride IIRC it settles down to about 18 months for the RMN to build an SD. (Or a little slower in the dispersed yards) But I'm not sure we ever knew how many SDs they could have under construction simultaneously -- so I don't think we have the data to convert that into a peak annual build rate of SDs. Of course, right now, they're way below whatever that peak was as they're still rebuilding after Oyster Bay trashed all their shipyards. |
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ThinksMarkedly
Posts: 4663
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Why would the MAN have a larger proportion of people available? This is not Galton where the population are clearly slaves. They think they are free, so they will be doing jobs as bartenders and entertainers. There will be fewer jobs as interstellar consultants and finance brokers because there is no interstellar communication, but by the same token they don't have a huge merchant fleet to draw people from. The economy may not make sense, but the rules apply to both. If a 3-billion-people system like Manticore can build 120 SDs in 40 years from scratch, then a 3-billion-people system like Darius can build them in roughly the same time. But Darius isn't building SDs. They're building even bigger ships, barely out of prototype phase. Any know-how imported from Galton wouldn't be directly applicable, not to mention the actual transfer of skilled people between the two systems would be extremely limited. We should be comparing those to the RMN's Samothrace build times instead. It was 30 years between those and the next class and only 7 were built. So I think I am being generous when I say an average of 1 per year. |
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