The Manpower Files

JohnRoth wrote:

cthia wrote:Wherever the MAlign is still communicating with the outside world is a potential weak link to them. It's hard to imagine that they would completely go off the grid -- no contact with the outside world to keep abreast of the rest -- which implies that somewhere they've what amounts to an RFE (Radio Free Europe).

Well, yeah. A large part of the Onion's security was based on the fact that nobody knew they existed - they were all looking at Manpower. They're really going to have to rethink their information links so they can operate in plain sight without being noticed.

I was thinking some equivalent to the All Number Stations, but those are yelling "I've got a secret! Brrraapkpfttt." (Do they still exist?)

Nice reference to the Numbers Stations.

I suppose I should make it clear that in reality, and also as implied in this case, RFE does not refer to the European countries bereft of the free flow of information, but rather the entity designated to supply information to these countries because of this lack of free flowing information.

Its initial historical perspective was to counter the Nazi war propaganda machine -- before it later grew in scope.

This RFE would be a MAlign weak link.

cthia wrote:Wherever the MAlign is still communicating with the outside world is a potential weak link to them. It's hard to imagine that they would completely go off the grid -- no contact with the outside world to keep abreast of the rest -- which implies that somewhere they've what amounts to an RFE (Radio Free Europe).

JohnRoth wrote:Well, yeah. A large part of the Onion's security was based on the fact that nobody knew they existed - they were all looking at Manpower. They're really going to have to rethink their information links so they can operate in plain sight without being noticed.

I was thinking some equivalent to the All Number Stations, but those are yelling "I've got a secret! Brrraapkpfttt." (Do they still exist?)

cthia wrote:Nice reference to the Numbers Stations.

I suppose I should make it clear that in reality, and also as implied in this case, RFE does not refer to the European countries bereft of the free flow of information, but rather the entity designated to supply information to these countries because of this lack of free flowing information.

Its initial historical perspective was to counter the Nazi war propaganda machine -- before it later grew in scope.

This RFE would be a MAlign weak link.

Please remember the MAlign's long-term three-part strategy: 1) undermine/destroy the Solarian League as well as neutralize/destroy Beowulf, 2) make the resulting chaos coalesce around the Renaissance Factor and 3) shift public opinion so they can implement their "genetic uplift" goal.

Part 1 is well under way. Part 2 may or may not happen, due to the existence of the Haven Sector nations. If it does, it's probably going to take some significant tweaking here and there.

There's lots of ways to hide in chaos; it's only in a relatively coherent state that you can collect enough intelligence to shake things like the MAlign out of the shadows.

If I was designing the next hidey-hole, I'd build a mobile base in the Alpha bands and plan on moving it periodically. It's been discussed before and there's no technical reason why someone couldn't do it. The objections have always been practicality.

Set up Darius to churn out the pieces while Darius lasts; then make it self-sustaining so it can build new habitats and repair existing ones. What would they look like? Think Yldun - a system with no habitable planets. Or our recent discussion about Belter habitats and societies.

Why the alpha bands? At this point in time, nobody goes there. The alpha bands are used as waystations between normal space and higher bands. There's lots of space and a huge amount of distortion that means nobody will find you unless they know where to look.

With constantly shifting routes to and from "Control Alpha," it wouldn't be all that easy to track it down, and if you did manage to start tracing a strand, that's all you'd compromise before the strand shifted out from under you.

JohnRoth wrote:

cthia wrote:Wherever the MAlign is still communicating with the outside world is a potential weak link to them. It's hard to imagine that they would completely go off the grid -- no contact with the outside world to keep abreast of the rest -- which implies that somewhere they've what amounts to an RFE (Radio Free Europe).

JohnRoth wrote:Well, yeah. A large part of the Onion's security was based on the fact that nobody knew they existed - they were all looking at Manpower. They're really going to have to rethink their information links so they can operate in plain sight without being noticed.

I was thinking some equivalent to the All Number Stations, but those are yelling "I've got a secret! Brrraapkpfttt." (Do they still exist?)

cthia wrote:Nice reference to the Numbers Stations.

I suppose I should make it clear that in reality, and also as implied in this case, RFE does not refer to the European countries bereft of the free flow of information, but rather the entity designated to supply information to these countries because of this lack of free flowing information.

Its initial historical perspective was to counter the Nazi war propaganda machine -- before it later grew in scope.

This RFE would be a MAlign weak link.

Please remember the MAlign's long-term three-part strategy: 1) undermine/destroy the Solarian League as well as neutralize/destroy Beowulf, 2) make the resulting chaos coalesce around the Renaissance Factor and 3) shift public opinion so they can implement their "genetic uplift" goal.

Part 1 is well under way. Part 2 may or may not happen, due to the existence of the Haven Sector nations. If it does, it's probably going to take some significant tweaking here and there.

There's lots of ways to hide in chaos; it's only in a relatively coherent state that you can collect enough intelligence to shake things like the MAlign out of the shadows.

If I was designing the next hidey-hole, I'd build a mobile base in the Alpha bands and plan on moving it periodically. It's been discussed before and there's no technical reason why someone couldn't do it. The objections have always been practicality.

Set up Darius to churn out the pieces while Darius lasts; then make it self-sustaining so it can build new habitats and repair existing ones. What would they look like? Think Yldun - a system with no habitable planets. Or our recent discussion about Belter habitats and societies.

Why the alpha bands? At this point in time, nobody goes there. The alpha bands are used as waystations between normal space and higher bands. There's lots of space and a huge amount of distortion that means nobody will find you unless they know where to look.

With constantly shifting routes to and from "Control Alpha," it wouldn't be all that easy to track it down, and if you did manage to start tracing a strand, that's all you'd compromise before the strand shifted out from under you.

Oh I cannot count the ways I appreciate this post. The discussion of hiding within waypoints accessed by the alpha bands eluded me. Johnny Lately missed another one. But isn't it not so much that "nobody goes there" rather than, except the MAlign, "nobody can?"

At any rate it is brilliant to use the alpha bands as the moat surrounding an uncrossable bridge. The MAlign is disdainfully taunting the "technologically advanced" "unprivileged worlds." However, even if the GA cannot safely travel those backroads, it has effectively set up a checkpoint Charlie at all of the Interstate corridors.

I was thinking some equivalent to the All Number Stations, but those are yelling "I've got a secret! Brrraapkpfttt." (Do they still exist?)

Almost certainly in one form or another. The real question is "has the methodology evolved and gone hi-tech?" The 'internet,' 'cell phones,' and a plethora of modern 'apps,' make clandestine communication difficult to crack or stop. The phenomena is behind the ability of the latest surge in ISIS.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... spies.html


I've always thought that the difficult to curtail spam can be an avenue of clandestine communication.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/08/techn ... .html?_r=0

FYI: A nice site on the Numbers Stations
http://www.numbers-stations.com/

cthia wrote:Wherever the MAlign is still communicating with the outside world is a potential weak link to them. It's hard to imagine that they would completely go off the grid -- no contact with the outside world to keep abreast of the rest -- which implies that somewhere they've what amounts to an RFE (Radio Free Europe).

JohnRoth wrote:Well, yeah. A large part of the Onion's security was based on the fact that nobody knew they existed - they were all looking at Manpower. They're really going to have to rethink their information links so they can operate in plain sight without being noticed.

I was thinking some equivalent to the All Number Stations, but those are yelling "I've got a secret! Brrraapkpfttt." (Do they still exist?)

cthia wrote:Nice reference to the Numbers Stations.

I suppose I should make it clear that in reality, and also as implied in this case, RFE does not refer to the European countries bereft of the free flow of information, but rather the entity designated to supply information to these countries because of this lack of free flowing information.

Its initial historical perspective was to counter the Nazi war propaganda machine -- before it later grew in scope.

This RFE would be a MAlign weak link.

JohnRoth wrote:Please remember the MAlign's long-term three-part strategy: 1) undermine/destroy the Solarian League as well as neutralize/destroy Beowulf, 2) make the resulting chaos coalesce around the Renaissance Factor and 3) shift public opinion so they can implement their "genetic uplift" goal.

Part 1 is well under way. Part 2 may or may not happen, due to the existence of the Haven Sector nations. If it does, it's probably going to take some significant tweaking here and there.

There's lots of ways to hide in chaos; it's only in a relatively coherent state that you can collect enough intelligence to shake things like the MAlign out of the shadows.

If I was designing the next hidey-hole, I'd build a mobile base in the Alpha bands and plan on moving it periodically. It's been discussed before and there's no technical reason why someone couldn't do it. The objections have always been practicality.

Set up Darius to churn out the pieces while Darius lasts; then make it self-sustaining so it can build new habitats and repair existing ones. What would they look like? Think Yldun - a system with no habitable planets. Or our recent discussion about Belter habitats and societies.

Why the alpha bands? At this point in time, nobody goes there. The alpha bands are used as waystations between normal space and higher bands. There's lots of space and a huge amount of distortion that means nobody will find you unless they know where to look.

With constantly shifting routes to and from "Control Alpha," it wouldn't be all that easy to track it down, and if you did manage to start tracing a strand, that's all you'd compromise before the strand shifted out from under you.

cthia wrote:Oh I cannot count the ways I appreciate this post. The discussion of hiding within waypoints accessed by the alpha bands eluded me. Johnny Lately missed another one. But isn't it not so much that "nobody goes there" rather than, except the MAlign, "nobody can?"

Um, no. The Alpha bands are the first hyper bands - they've been accessible since whoever it was invented the first crude hyper-drive. The reason "nobody goes there" is that they're slow. On a trip of any length, a ship is going to go as high as it can, so the only places you'll find ships in the alpha bands is just outside a star's hyper limit and between two relatively close destinations, where it's not worth while to shift to higher bands just to shift back down again.

John Roth wrote:I was thinking some equivalent to the All Number Stations, but those are yelling "I've got a secret! Brrraapkpfttt." (Do they still exist?)

Almost certainly in one form or another. The real question is "has the methodology evolved and gone hi-tech?" The 'internet,' 'cell phones,' and a plethora of modern 'apps,' make clandestine communication difficult to crack or stop. The phenomena is behind the ability of the latest surge in ISIS.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... spies.html


I've always thought that the difficult to curtail spam can be an avenue of clandestine communication.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/08/techn ... .html?_r=0

FYI: A nice site on the Numbers Stations
http://www.numbers-stations.com/[/quote]

This is on one planet. The issue with the Honorverse is tracing communications between planets, which necessarily have to go by some form of ship, the faster the better to avoid information being too out-of-date.

In the War of 1812, for example, the battle of New Orleans happened after the peace treaty between the U.S. and Great Britain had been signed.

There are a lot of ways of hiding clandestine communications, but the weak point is always going to be "who knew what when." You can trace communication networks by measuring reaction times and matching them up to ship movement, but that requires a network that stays stable over a long enough time frame.

A network where the major decision nodes shift at intervals is much harder to trace.