Captured Solly SDs

crewdude48 wrote:

JeffEngel wrote:I do wonder about Beowulf's and Mannerheim's SDF SD's. Granted, it's only recently that system defense missile pods would be able to do that job, and neither of those has publicly deployed MDM's (much less combined them with FTL fire control) to make that really work. But still, SD's over fortresses and cruisers/destroyers suggest an interest in being able to project power that has to raise eyebrows.

IIRC, Beowulf also had a large merchant fleet. The Beowulf SDF was, at least in part, designed to discourage nations in the Verge from messing with Beowulf flagged merchants. It is something that Battle fleet would consider beneath itself, and Frontier Fleet may be understrength to handle.

On a different note, do you think Beowulf's merchants being pulled out of the SL will mess with the Mandarin's calculations?

n7axw wrote:

JeffEngel wrote:
Mutual support could be had with as few as two. More than purely nominal mutual support, eh, figure four. I'd peg that as the minimum count of SD's you can expect to afford to get and keep before you want to make the "jump" to the waller league.

Even then though, now, that may indicate an interest in projecting power, not merely being more serious about system defense. For that, you could still do better with fortress(es) and/or system defense missile pods and control installations. You wouldn't be able to chase people around a system with a fortress, but they're maneuverable enough to avoid cheap kills with c-fractional missile strikes. The system defense missile pods are vulnerable that way, but they can (nowadays) have a fair expectation of remaining hidden. And either one of them can put a hurt on SD's that come to their range, for much less cost per unit effectiveness.

I do wonder about Beowulf's and Mannerheim's SDF SD's. Granted, it's only recently that system defense missile pods would be able to do that job, and neither of those has publicly deployed MDM's (much less combined them with FTL fire control) to make that really work. But still, SD's over fortresses and cruisers/destroyers suggest an interest in being able to project power that has to raise eyebrows.

There can be valid reasons to project power. When King Roger began his buildup, he had a specific opponent in mind. In order to survive over the long term, Manticore had to be able to project power both in order to defend its allies and to keep the Peeps out of her yard. Ulimately Manticore had to be able not only to defend herself; she had to build her navy to defeat Haven.

In that context, had Manticore restricted herself to a system defense force, she would have been toast.

Don

crewdude48 wrote:

JeffEngel wrote:I do wonder about Beowulf's and Mannerheim's SDF SD's. Granted, it's only recently that system defense missile pods would be able to do that job, and neither of those has publicly deployed MDM's (much less combined them with FTL fire control) to make that really work. But still, SD's over fortresses and cruisers/destroyers suggest an interest in being able to project power that has to raise eyebrows.

IIRC, Beowulf also had a large merchant fleet. The Beowulf SDF was, at least in part, designed to discourage nations in the Verge from messing with Beowulf flagged merchants. It is something that Battle fleet would consider beneath itself, and Frontier Fleet may be understrength to handle.

n7axw wrote:There is no question but what Beowulf had a substantial SDF; over 30 SDs plus screening elements, IIRC. It's not completely clear why they believed that such a large navy was needed. Presumably the SLN was there to defend League members. Commerce protection doesn't seem to explain it either since as we've discussed previously, commerce protection is better accomplished by lighter units.

drothgery wrote:

n7axw wrote:There is no question but what Beowulf had a substantial SDF; over 30 SDs plus screening elements, IIRC. It's not completely clear why they believed that such a large navy was needed. Presumably the SLN was there to defend League members. Commerce protection doesn't seem to explain it either since as we've discussed previously, commerce protection is better accomplished by lighter units.

If acquiring the wall of battle is relatively recent (though it probably is not), it could be because Beowulf was worried Manticore might be defeated by Haven, and a Haven that did successfully conquer Manticore would get around to the League eventually, quite likely starting with Beowulf.

n7axw wrote:There is no question but what Beowulf had a substantial SDF; over 30 SDs plus screening elements, IIRC. It's not completely clear why they believed that such a large navy was needed.

Weird Harold wrote:

n7axw wrote:There is no question but what Beowulf had a substantial SDF; over 30 SDs plus screening elements, IIRC. It's not completely clear why they believed that such a large navy was needed.

Beowulf has a treaty obligation to defend the Wormhole Terminus. Even without a formal obligation, being the system associated with a Wormhole Terminus carries an increased risk of hostile takeovers.

n7axw wrote:There is no question but what Beowulf had a substantial SDF; over 30 SDs plus screening elements, IIRC. It's not completely clear why they believed that such a large navy was needed. Presumably the SLN was there to defend League members. Commerce protection doesn't seem to explain it either since as we've discussed previously, commerce protection is better accomplished by lighter units.

The only thing I can come up with is Beowulf's long standing quarrel with Mesa. I wonder if long before the current furbar exploded, Beowulf's assessment of the threat Mesa represented was different than the League's to the point where Beowulf didn't quite trust the League to take that threat seriously enough to react promptly to come to Beowulf's defense should an actual attack from Mesa materialize.

Only a guess..

Don