A question about the destruction of Admiral Filareta

Hutch wrote:snip


Apparently multiplication using pen and paper are another ability that is fading fast in my dotage....

You are of course right, which only firms up the point that Filareta was toast wherever he went in the manticore system--just a decision if the toast was wheat, white, or rye.

Whatever flavor of toast, it was going to be well burned.

fallsfromtrees wrote:

Hutch wrote:snip


Apparently multiplication using pen and paper are another ability that is fading fast in my dotage....

You are of course right, which only firms up the point that Filareta was toast wherever he went in the manticore system--just a decision if the toast was wheat, white, or rye.

Whatever flavor of toast, it was going to be well burned.

Questions of Hutch's dotage aside, remember that according to textev, neither Crsndall or Filereta were to survive the engagements lest they reveal Manpower's involvment.

Torlek, we know that the Alignment has managed nano-assasinations that did not fit the pattern you describe. So you cannot impose a one size fits all assumption on any given situation. The nanites can be programed to produce whatever response the programer decides is needed for that trigger event.

Don

n7axw wrote:
Questions of Hutch's dotage aside, remember that according to textev, neither Crsndall or Filereta were to survive the engagements lest they reveal Manpower's involvment.

Torlek, we know that the Alignment has managed nano-assasinations that did not fit the pattern you describe. So you cannot impose a one size fits all assumption on any given situation. The nanites can be programed to produce whatever response the programer decides is needed for that trigger event.

Don

Within reason. Steer an aircar into the wall, yes. Write a 3 page suicide note..... er... no.

Theemile wrote:

n7axw wrote:
Questions of Hutch's dotage aside, remember that according to textev, neither Crsndall or Filereta were to survive the engagements lest they reveal Manpower's involvment.

Torlek, we know that the Alignment has managed nano-assasinations that did not fit the pattern you describe. So you cannot impose a one size fits all assumption on any given situation. The nanites can be programed to produce whatever response the programer decides is needed for that trigger event.

Don

Within reason. Steer an aircar into the wall, yes. Write a 3 page suicide note..... er... no.

Agreed.

Don

Hi TheEmile,

At 200 MDM's per BF SD, only approximately 85,000 would be needed or some 10,500 Apollo pods, not counting the 4 stage system defense ones, so the suggested 36 Sag-C's could handle almost half by themselves.

Should we start speculating now how many fire control links an Agamemnon and Nike have?

How about Mycroft's?

L

Theemile wrote:

Hutch wrote:That's why I said that the BC's and CA's would not be messing around and letting Filareta fall into the trap designed by Grand Fleet. Figuring that Gryphon is a little farther away from the hyper limit (does anybody have that number?), I'd give him one warning and then launch, say 4,250 Apollo pods using the Therekov/Henke protocol from Monica/Spindle for control (I calculate 40 Sag-C's with 128 control links each for 2,120 pods and the remaining A's and B's make up the rest). Add in 10,500 System defense missiles (individually controlled by the BC's with an estimated 150 control links per BC) and you have an iniital launch of 44,500 attack missiles, with probably 38,000 (90 per SD or 380 for the first 100) and keep launching ever 20 seconds until they surrender or there are no more targets.

<snip>

Hutch, your math is a little off - 40 Sag-Cs can control 5120 Apollo pods, or 40,960 attack/ECM birds per salvo all by their lonesomes. Throw in another 40 Nikes/ Reliants/BC(p)s, and you can control somewhere between 10,000 and 15,000 Apollo Pods, per salvo, easy.

Hi SharkHunter,

Guys, something to consider regarding the 60 untouched surviving SD's and the 71 damaged is how many volleys did they launch after the first one?

Both side's missiles were around 3 minutes or more from each other, but if the second in command ordered the broadside volley which took some 13 seconds, the next salvo probably would have been around a minute after the pod launch, when it was obvious the GA's response was going to destroy them; so the smart SD CO's destroyed their Cataphracts and struck their wedges, with some probably being too late, but those that didn't launch a second time probably had more time and GA goodwill than those who launched a second salvo then thought better of it.

L

SharkHunter wrote:

Vince wrote:*quote="Brent7s"*My thought to what happened after the Admiral under Nano control typed in the code would be one of several things.

1# blows up the bomb
2# starts a computer program inside the Flagship to do several things
a) send a recorded message of Admiral Filareta to the rest of the fleet to open fire.
b) Lock out the flagship from sending any communications to any outside source.
c) locks out all escape pods and small craft from being used to escape the flagship.
d) waits until the flagships damage control system records an weapon impact to the hull and then blow up the fusion cores


If I was a paranoid bunch of supermen who think to clean up all possible chance at someone getting a hint of the truth. Setting up a Superdreadnaught to blow itself EMC2 to hide any "Alignment" fingerprints seems reasonable if I was a heartless fanatical Self deluded superman wanna be.*quote*
Reverse steps 1 and 2a-c, then execute 2d.

The only problem is that's an overly complex sequence, beyond nano-controllability, at least so far as RFC's characters have told us in textev thus far. Pushing the fire and forget button for the pods, a fire control order only issuable under control of the flagship, and a short sequence designed to blow up a purpose-installed bomb to take out the flag bridge, not so terribly difficult.

I'd think the "fire and forget" also triggered a salvo from any missiles already in tubes, but those were futile anyway because they were much more short legged.

Either way, the RMN / GA was forced to return fire, even if their own casualties were low enough that it seems injust for them to have done their jobs. The fact that the surviving SD's were allowed to surrender instead of just being slaughtered shows that "our good guys" fought a just and controlled battle, no matter what the Mandarin's try to sell to the League in the short run. The truth will out.

Theemile wrote:

n7axw wrote:
Questions of Hutch's dotage aside, remember that according to textev, neither Crsndall or Filereta were to survive the engagements lest they reveal Manpower's involvment.

Torlek, we know that the Alignment has managed nano-assasinations that did not fit the pattern you describe. So you cannot impose a one size fits all assumption on any given situation. The nanites can be programed to produce whatever response the programer decides is needed for that trigger event.

Don

Within reason. Steer an aircar into the wall, yes. Write a 3 page suicide note..... er... no.

Yes and we are talking about a single shot in the head here.

For comparison when they tried to assassinate Honor and Ambassador Whathisname the sprayed gunfire far and wide.

Crandall was shot in the back of her head. Sounds like an execution or in this situation a fragging except that it should be hard to get shot accidentally or enemy action in the back of the head on your own flag bridge and everybody else in the room had no problems.

The rest of the people on that bridge have already been questioned. Nobody has even raised the possibility in the text that the person who did it then left the bridge and everybody is just not mentioning it.
Given that they all (we presume) went into custody at Spindle, they should be available for requisitioning- unless one or more either were sent back with O'Cleary or has met with an "unfortunate accident" as a POW on Spindle. If anybody is really interested, they could get all of them interviewd with a treecat present even if a cat and their person had to be sent from Manticore.
Might fall into the tum-te-tum-tum area as a development thread for at least exposing ties to the Alignment and how much influence this shadow star nation had/has on SL and SLN

Just an idea:)

Brigade XO wrote:Crandall was shot in the back of her head. Sounds like an execution or in this situation a fragging except that it should be hard to get shot accidentally or enemy action in the back of the head on your own flag bridge and everybody else in the room had no problems.

The rest of the people on that bridge have already been questioned. Nobody has even raised the possibility in the text that the person who did it then left the bridge and everybody is just not mentioning it.
Given that they all (we presume) went into custody at Spindle, they should be available for requisitioning- unless one or more either were sent back with O'Cleary or has met with an "unfortunate accident" as a POW on Spindle. If anybody is really interested, they could get all of them interviewd with a treecat present even if a cat and their person had to be sent from Manticore.
Might fall into the tum-te-tum-tum area as a development thread for at least exposing ties to the Alignment and how much influence this shadow star nation had/has on SL and SLN

Just an idea:)

I just don't see anything useful we (the readers) could learn from this investigation.

If he was shot by someone else on the bridge, then it was not a nano-assassination. In a nano-assassination, the killer knows he is being controlled, and can't stop it. The killer himself is always set up to be killed, because the killer knows he was being manipulated. That is the reason some previous nano-assassins sprayed the entire room--it wasn't to kill as many as possible, it was to force the survivors to use lethal force. The Alignment can't let anyone infected with the nano-controllers live. If somehow a nano-assassin did manage to live, I don't think anyone who had just gone through that could possibly pretend it hadn't happened. I conclude that if Crandall was killed by someone else, it was not a nano-assassination, and the investigation won't come up with anything that points to the Alignment.

If Crandall killed himself, then the only thing that the investigation can come up with is that he killed himself. No witnesses will be able to say anything other than to confirm suicide. Again, there is no evidence that points to the Alignment.

So I really don't see the point of speculation about investigating Crandall's death. Nothing useful for pinning down the Alignment can come from it.

Brigade XO wrote:Crandall was shot in the back of her head. Sounds like an execution or in this situation a fragging except that it should be hard to get shot accidentally or enemy action in the back of the head on your own flag bridge and everybody else in the room had no problems.

The rest of the people on that bridge have already been questioned. Nobody has even raised the possibility in the text that the person who did it then left the bridge and everybody is just not mentioning it.
Given that they all (we presume) went into custody at Spindle, they should be available for requisitioning- unless one or more either were sent back with O'Cleary or has met with an "unfortunate accident" as a POW on Spindle. If anybody is really interested, they could get all of them interviewed with a treecat present even if a cat and their person had to be sent from Manticore.
Might fall into the tum-te-tum-tum area as a development thread for at least exposing ties to the Alignment and how much influence this shadow star nation had/has on SL and SLN

Just an idea:)

I don't disagree with most of the above, XO, but I would note that they were on a ship that was in the process of being blown into helplessness by a Mantie Missile Massacre (trademark pending... ), those that were not in a panic were working feverishly (or hysterically) to save what they could of the ship, and things would be a bit...confused..for a few moments and events may not have been observed quite as sharply as usual.

There should have been records (if the SEM tapes their bridge actions for the record, I expect the Sollies do to), but perhaps they were fortuitusly (sp) destroyed during the attack (yeah, right....).

But I agree, like several other items, it remains one of those plot points RFC may pick up...or not.

We shall see, eventually.