light ships number and type

Jonathan_S wrote:
That does happen to match the Mk31 CM and Viper's times. But is also matches the apparent powered time of the Andy's EDM (and there's only a marginal difference in accel; 500g) giving them virtually identical ranges. But now we're back to conflicting with the (possibly badly worded) fight in WoH between the Mantie CA and the 3 Andy CLs where it says the CA was able to open fire at 15 Mkm but the CLs not until 12 Mkm...

Bolded: Why I think there was an improved, roughly 10Mkm super light DD missile that RFC has simply never bothered to tell us about. We also, very briefly, saw it off-hand mention in SoSag(Went something like: Forget name of ship, is an Avalon class CL I believe, able to open fire at slighlty further range than the much older obsolete Chanson class DD's but not as far as the other CA whom I presume had the MK14. Anyways. The 15Mkm and 12Mkm numbers would match if we add in initial closing velocity between the two ships.

Gah, you are going to force me to go read SoSag last battle again. Poor me. So, sad what will I do?

Relax wrote:

Gah, you are going to force me to go read SoSag last battle again. Poor me. So, sad what will I do?

Enjoy?

Relax wrote:Bolded: Why I think there was an improved, roughly 10Mkm super light DD missile that RFC has simply never bothered to tell us about. We also, very briefly, saw it off-hand mention in SoSag(Went something like: Forget name of ship, is an Avalon class CL I believe, able to open fire at slighlty further range than the much older obsolete Chanson class DD's but not as far as the other CA whom I presume had the MK14. Anyways. The 15Mkm and 12Mkm numbers would match if we add in initial closing velocity between the two ships.

Gah, you are going to force me to go read SoSag last battle again. Poor me. So, sad what will I do?

:D

As far as I know only the Saganami-B CAs carry the Mkl4 EDM, and SoSag identifies both of other CAs at Monica as old Star Knight-class ships. And it explicitly states that the surviving one, Warlock "couldn't handle even the Mark 14 missiles the Saganami-Bs had been designed to fire, much less a Saganami-C's Mark 16s"

Of course it then goes on to say she should have a 3 Mkm range advantage over the Sollie missiles; But that has to be almost entirely due to the engagement geometry (the BCs in a stern chase), because that's almost 50% of her powered range (from rest).

Although, given what we now know about the Avalon-class, it doesn't make sense that Warlock opened fire before Aegis did. But that's what SoSag seems to say: "[The Monican BCs had] just begun their turn when the second Manty heavy cruiser opened fire, followed seconds later by every surviving Manticoran ship." (and up to that point only Hexapuma had been firing)

Even if the LERM does only have a 12 Mkm from rest powered range, that's still more than 4 Mkm farther than the SDMs a Star Knight carries...
(Wonder if RFC hadn't decided on LERMs for the Avalons and Wolfhounds back when he wrote SoSag)

Jonathan_S wrote:

Relax wrote:Bolded: Why I think there was an improved, roughly 10Mkm super light DD missile that RFC has simply never bothered to tell us about. We also, very briefly, saw it off-hand mention in SoSag(Went something like: Forget name of ship, is an Avalon class CL I believe, able to open fire at slighlty further range than the much older obsolete Chanson class DD's but not as far as the other CA whom I presume had the MK14. Anyways. The 15Mkm and 12Mkm numbers would match if we add in initial closing velocity between the two ships.

Gah, you are going to force me to go read SoSag last battle again. Poor me. So, sad what will I do?

:D

As far as I know only the Saganami-B CAs carry the Mkl4 EDM, and SoSag identifies both of other CAs at Monica as old Star Knight-class ships. And it explicitly states that the surviving one, Warlock "couldn't handle even the Mark 14 missiles the Saganami-Bs had been designed to fire, much less a Saganami-C's Mark 16s"

Of course it then goes on to say she should have a 3 Mkm range advantage over the Sollie missiles; which makes no sense. That's almost 50% of her from rest powered range.

And given what we now know about the Avalon-class it also makes no sense that Warlock opened fire before Aegis did. But that's what SoSag seems to say: "[The Monican BCs had] just begun their turn when the second Manty heavy cruiser opened fire, followed seconds later by every surviving Manticoran ship." (and up to that point only Hexapuma had been firing)

Even if the LERM does only have a 12 Mkm from rest powered range, that's still more than 4 Mkm farther than the SDMs a Star Knight carries...
(Wonder if RFC hadn't decided on LERMs for the Avalons and Wolfhounds back when he wrote SoSag)

If I recall correctly, in the earc the Avalon DID open fire before the rest of the squadron, but it was changed in the final version.

Theemile wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:And given what we now know about the Avalon-class it also makes no sense that Warlock opened fire before Aegis did. But that's what SoSag seems to say: "[The Monican BCs had] just begun their turn when the second Manty heavy cruiser opened fire, followed seconds later by every surviving Manticoran ship." (and up to that point only Hexapuma had been firing)

Even if the LERM does only have a 12 Mkm from rest powered range, that's still more than 4 Mkm farther than the SDMs a Star Knight carries...
(Wonder if RFC hadn't decided on LERMs for the Avalons and Wolfhounds back when he wrote SoSag)

If I recall correctly, in the earc the Avalon DID open fire before the rest of the squadron, but it was changed in the final version.

Interesting. I don't appear to have purchased the eARC of that one, so I wasn't able to look and see.


Edit: And on a side note I found another of Relax's "round number" missile durations. From SoSag we're given the acceleration and 'from rest' terminal velocity of the oversized Technodyne podded missiles. Works out almost perfectly for 75/225 seconds endurance at full/half power. Which not only is a nice multiplier of the old 60/180 second drives, but also matched the Mk31/Viper endurance and the apparent endurance of the Andies EDM.

Jonathan_S wrote::D

As far as I know only the Saganami-B CAs carry the Mkl4 EDM, and SoSag identifies both of other CAs at Monica as old Star Knight-class ships. And it explicitly states that the surviving one, Warlock "couldn't handle even the Mark 14 missiles the Saganami-Bs had been designed to fire, much less a Saganami-C's Mark 16s"

Of course it then goes on to say she should have a 3 Mkm range advantage over the Sollie missiles; But that has to be almost entirely due to the engagement geometry (the BCs in a stern chase), because that's almost 50% of her powered range (from rest).

Erm. BC's were closing in on Eroica station while Terekov were actually stationary relative to the station.

It was a closing engagement, not a stern chase.

But, yes, more new missiles/ships we have not seen explicitly detailed in the books.

wastedfly wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote::D

As far as I know only the Saganami-B CAs carry the Mkl4 EDM, and SoSag identifies both of other CAs at Monica as old Star Knight-class ships. And it explicitly states that the surviving one, Warlock "couldn't handle even the Mark 14 missiles the Saganami-Bs had been designed to fire, much less a Saganami-C's Mark 16s"

Of course it then goes on to say she should have a 3 Mkm range advantage over the Sollie missiles; But that has to be almost entirely due to the engagement geometry (the BCs in a stern chase), because that's almost 50% of her powered range (from rest).

Erm. BC's were closing in on Eroica station while Terekov were actually stationary relative to the station.

It was a closing engagement, not a stern chase.

But, yes, more new missiles/ships we have not seen explicitly detailed in the books.

Well, after the pod based exchange with the station Terekov's remaining ships increased their deceleration from 350 to 400g. But I think you're right their vector was still more or less towards the BCs; I was focused on the acceration and trying to figure out an explanation for the otherwise excessive seeming range gap.

But if they were closing, even at decreasing velocity, I don't see a good explanation for that 3 Mkm range advantage that the Star Knight's missiles were supposed to have over the BCs' missiles. The more I look at that engagement the less I seem to understand it.
accelerating away from the BCs at 400g (the best they could managed after their damage)

Does it not make sense to have a new light CL/DD missile to go along with the CA/BC Mk-14? MK-14 came in with the SAG-B, or was it SAG-A? Anyways, contemporary of SAG-A/B was the Avalon.

Besides we also have the Graysons creating the Viper missile with a DD/CL single laser head in it. I suppose it would make sense for this missile tech to be the contemporary of the SAG-A/B and this new DD/CL missile as well. Actually, it was later, but not much later as Janacek kicked the Graysons out of joint R&D and the LAC superiority fighter program along with all R&D.

wastedfly wrote:Does it not make sense to have a new light CL/DD missile to go along with the CA/BC Mk-14? MK-14 came in with the SAG-B, or was it SAG-A? Anyways, contemporary of SAG-A/B was the Avalon.

Besides we also have the Graysons creating the Viper missile with a DD/CL single laser head in it. I suppose it would make sense for this missile tech to be the contemporary of the SAG-A/B and this new DD/CL missile as well. Actually, it was later, but not much later as Janacek kicked the Graysons out of joint R&D and the LAC superiority fighter program along with all R&D.

DOH! I should have seen this.

Now that you mentioned it, it makes perfect sense. There has always been a class distinction between missiles as well as ship types. 3 tiers. Makes rational sense that there would have been 3 R&D programs for new missiles as well.

wastedfly wrote:Does it not make sense to have a new light CL/DD missile to go along with the CA/BC Mk-14? MK-14 came in with the SAG-B, or was it SAG-A? Anyways, contemporary of SAG-A/B was the Avalon.

Besides we also have the Graysons creating the Viper missile with a DD/CL single laser head in it. I suppose it would make sense for this missile tech to be the contemporary of the SAG-A/B and this new DD/CL missile as well. Actually, it was later, but not much later as Janacek kicked the Graysons out of joint R&D and the LAC superiority fighter program along with all R&D.

Sure. And House of Steel tells us that the DD/CL counterpart to the Mk-14 was the Mk-36 LERM; carried by the Avalon-class CL (like HMS Aegis at Monica)Wolfhound-class DD.

Presumably it's the same accel and endurance, but with a lighter warhead and a smaller missile body.

Which brings me back to wondering why Aegis wasn't able to open fire at Monica well before the Star Knight-class HMS Warlock. But the way the battle is written she seems to open fire with the rest of the small fry "seconds" after Warlock; and some of that small fry is way to old to be likely to have been refitted to carry LERMs.