Mesan Alignment - Back on Balance

cthia wrote:Addendum:

I'm not sure what kind of government is currently emplaced on Darius but I'd assume it has a high likelihood to be too foreign for the general audience represented by the population of the common galaxy. It may shock star nations away from that which they do not understand. Yet I really don't see the Detweilers embracing 'cough' democracy. Yet they have to prepare the package as sweetly as possible to attract the flies.

The MA don't take Visa, they don't take American Express, they won't accept Democracy and I don't think they'll accept anything favoring Beowulf's form of government either.

cthia wrote:

n7axw wrote:
The forms of government on Mesa seemed to favor Beowulf's more than anything else, although in reality the actual governing process was pretty tightly controlled and closed to the public.

Don

-

I'd think that whatever Mesa's government is, would be perfect for them. But I didn't think they'd want anything resembling Mesa's government, at all, or it might point the finger to where the remnants of Houdini fled. And rightly so. Of course, if Mesa's government is a run of the mill government of the galaxy, that might not raise any brows. What exactly is Mesa's government?

If you live in a city where all of the homes are painted bright orange and you executed a Houdini and disappeared, then another city, which also happens to like bright orange homes suddenly pops up, someone's going to be suspicious.

Would they dare establish the same government of their patsies? Scorned Mesans will recognize the similarity.

Darius's location is an utter secret, so there's no opportunity for any outsiders to see whether they've got a participatory democracy or Plato's Republic (with the Alphas as the philosopher-kings, of course), or anything in between, to the side or off the wall.

I expect it's going to be a long time before what anyone else thinks about it to have any relevance.

cthia wrote:Addendum:

I'm not sure what kind of government is currently emplaced on Darius but I'd assume it has a high likelihood to be too foreign for the general audience represented by the population of the common galaxy. It may shock star nations away from that which they do not understand. Yet I really don't see the Detweilers embracing 'cough' democracy. Yet they have to prepare the package as sweetly as possible to attract the flies.

The MA don't take Visa, they don't take American Express, they won't accept Democracy and I don't think they'll accept anything favoring Beowulf's form of government either.

cthia wrote:

n7axw wrote:
The forms of government on Mesa seemed to favor Beowulf's more than anything else, although in reality the actual governing process was pretty tightly controlled and closed to the public.

Don

-

I'd think that whatever Mesa's government is, would be perfect for them. But I didn't think they'd want anything resembling Mesa's government, at all, or it might point the finger to where the remnants of Houdini fled. And rightly so. Of course, if Mesa's government is a run of the mill government of the galaxy, that might not raise any brows. What exactly is Mesa's government?

If you live in a city where all of the homes are painted bright orange and you executed a Houdini and disappeared, then another city, which also happens to like bright orange homes suddenly pops up, someone's going to be suspicious.

Would they dare establish the same government of their patsies? Scorned Mesans will recognize the similarity.

JohnRoth wrote:Darius's location is an utter secret, so there's no opportunity for any outsiders to see whether they've got a participatory democracy or Plato's Republic (with the Alphas as the philosopher-kings, of course), or anything in between, to the side or off the wall.

I expect it's going to be a long time before what anyone else thinks about it to have any relevance.

We're speculating on what government the coalesced RF sponsored remnants of the League will install. I was under the impression that Mesa's government was a one-off. I certainly may be wrong, but I didn't think it resembled any other government in the galaxy at large. Yet, the MA's endgame is to attract as many of the fractured League remnants as possible to further their cause. A new government too far away from the norm may frighten the foreign natives.

We don't know what Darius' government is, but I didn't think it resembled anything on any other planet either, including Mesa. Mesa's government was simply a front for nefarious activities and was set up to be the patsy and to not call attention to itself. It was also settled by people who knew what they were getting themselves into and were already down with the plan. I would assume the coalesced star systems representing the RF would have a more permanent government it can trust in the long run and not become something that the RF has to put down as a result of an uprising -- instigated by the damn meddling Manticorans and Beowulfans along with jealous, angry, fractured, scorned Leaguers.

Remember, the RF sponsored star nations will absorb systems that are accustomed to the League's government. Just like the Old Republic, they may not like what the League had become, but there was a time they were proud. At any rate, the RF has to draw in the flies with honey, yet avoid boxing themselves in by installing a government that can later turn on them. Especially if the majority of its immigrants didn't really know what they were signing up for or saw what was coming.

"What did you just inject into my neck?!"

"Keep your mouth closed and it won't become a problem."

Davy,
Davy Crocket.
King of the wild frontier.

cthia wrote:


H O N O R 'S R E S U M E

When she ended up in Hell, her reputation had preceded her there. She then proceeded to destroy an entire task group with old members of several retired navies who hadn't set foot in a warship since the hulls were no longer made of wood. And she did it on maneuvering thrusters only, while operating without a wedge and still managed up the kilt shots.

Even Saganmi and D'Orville would have said "Damn Girl!"

She brought down and humbled a magnate who had invested billions in the navy.

She challenged the Queen and won.

She held a Protector hostage and earned his respect.

She turned an entire crew who hated her into the tightest knit group who would have followed her to Hell. And they did.

She killed a hexapuma with a vibro blade when she was only a child. She didn't use her bare hands, no, but only because the blade was handy and she couldn't bring evidence of the kill home on her clothing to her parents.

She destroyed a Q-ship with a raped and aging light cruiser and all she was worried about was her stomach. "Will someone scare us up some sandwiches? The way this idiot is maneuvering!"

She disabled a freighter without firing a shot.

Defeated the greatest swordsman in the galaxy while dead on her feet and injured, after a grueling battle with everything but the kitchen sink, after surviving an attack on her pinnace that crashed and injured her.

She can eat enough chickens to fill a henhouse.

Heck, after what she accomplished at Cerberus, I began to think the RMN wasted ships on her. She could have defeated any Peep force with a first generation LAC, if someone would have simply kept the fucking Opposition and the Youngs off her back.

cthia wrote:

cthia wrote:I'm not sure what kind of government is currently emplaced on Darius but I'd assume it has a high likelihood to be too foreign for the general audience represented by the population of the common galaxy. It may shock star nations away from that which they do not understand. Yet I really don't see the Detweilers embracing 'cough' democracy. Yet they have to prepare the package as sweetly as possible to attract the flies.

The MA don't take Visa, they don't take American Express, they won't accept Democracy and I don't think they'll accept anything favoring Beowulf's form of government either.[/quote
The forms of government on Mesa seemed to favor Beowulf's more than anything else, although in reality the actual governing process was pretty tightly controlled and closed to the public.

Don


I'd think that whatever Mesa's government is, would be perfect for them. But I didn't think they'd want anything resembling Mesa's government, at all, or it might point the finger to where the remnants of Houdini fled. And rightly so. Of course, if Mesa's government is a run of the mill government of the galaxy, that might not raise any brows. What exactly is Mesa's government?

If you live in a city where all of the homes are painted bright orange and you executed a Houdini and disappeared, then another city, which also happens to like bright orange homes suddenly pops up, someone's going to be suspicious.

Would they dare establish the same government of their patsies? Scorned Mesans will recognize the similarity.

JohnRoth wrote:Darius's location is an utter secret, so there's no opportunity for any outsiders to see whether they've got a participatory democracy or Plato's Republic (with the Alphas as the philosopher-kings, of course), or anything in between, to the side or off the wall.

I expect it's going to be a long time before what anyone else thinks about it to have any relevance.

We're speculating on what government the coalesced RF sponsored remnants of the League will install. I was under the impression that Mesa's government was a one-off. I certainly may be wrong, but I didn't think it resembled any other government in the galaxy at large. Yet, the MA's endgame is to attract as many of the fractured League remnants as possible to further their cause. A new government too far away from the norm may frighten the foreign natives.

We don't know what Darius' government is, but I didn't think it resembled anything on any other planet either, including Mesa. Mesa's government was simply a front for nefarious activities and was set up to be the patsy and to not call attention to itself. It was also settled by people who knew what they were getting themselves into and were already down with the plan. I would assume the coalesced star systems representing the RF would have a more permanent government it can trust in the long run and not become something that the RF has to put down as a result of an uprising -- instigated by the damn meddling Manticorans and Beowulfans along with jealous, angry, fractured, scorned Leaguers.

Remember, the RF sponsored star nations will absorb systems that are accustomed to the League's government. Just like the Old Republic, they may not like what the League had become, but there was a time they were proud. At any rate, the RF has to draw in the flies with honey, yet avoid boxing themselves in by installing a government that can later turn on them. Especially if the majority of its immigrants didn't really know what they were signing up for or saw what was coming.

"What did you just inject into my neck?!"

"Keep your mouth closed and it won't become a problem."

The Darius system seems to work. Remember it has a huge population. That takes time. They may be slaves but according to text they are not dissatisfied.

We don't know the details. Chances are we will find out.

Let's try this again...

Renaissance Factor

The Renaissance Factor was the name given to a structure expected to arise in and around the Solarian League as it collapsed as a result of the long-term political and military strategies of the Mesan Alignment.

The planned strategy included a series of shocks to the military and political confidence of the Solarian League and its corrupt and bureaucratic governing structure. As a result, several star nations would then reluctantly conclude that they must withdraw from the collapsing League and form a workable polity from their part of the wreckage. Each of these would eventually realize that united, they could be more effective, producing a large political entity in the region of the former Solarian League. The project would be secretly furthered since each of these reluctantly withdrawing remnants of the Solarian League would be, in fact, cooperating members of the Mesan Alignment.

As of the early 1920s PD, each was led by a senior Alpha line member of the Alignment, from families long ago (in some cases, several centuries ago) placed on their planets as multi-generational Mesan agents. Each was directed by the highest leadership of the Mesan Alignment, on Mesa, led by Albrecht Detweiler. None of this was planned to be publicly known until well after a new polity had been established in what had been the Solarian League's territory, not one part of which had any connection (publicly) with Mesa or any of its criminal organizations, or the long abandoned plans to improve human genetics of the founders of Mesa, Leonard Detweiler and his associates.

The several star nations that will reluctantly conclude that they must form their own polity has to have some sort of government. Will they simply transfer Darius' government to this RF sponsored polity in the region of the Solarian League?

I don't think so. One reason is because they must dangle a tasty carrot in front of the naive, fractured members of the Solarian League, those remnants who are not previously sponsored and prepped members of the Mesan Alignment as they themselves are, in order to entice them to join. They must make the new polity seem sweet and tasty to the naked and uninformed eye -- putting forth a good foot, certainly holding back the horrid details that would indeed make the recruits just a bit jumpy. (Much like what cults do until you are hooked, line and sinkered.) I'd think that would amount to forming a government a bit less frightening than whatever monstrosity lives on Darius. These fractured systems are former Solarian League members who lived under a democracy. A far cry from whatever hails on Darius or even Mesa (I would think) for that matter.

Note the part where it says: None of this was planned to be publicly known until well after a new polity had been established in what had been the Solarian League's territory, not one part of which had any connection (publicly) with Mesa or any of its criminal organizations, or the long abandoned plans to improve human genetics of the founders of Mesa, Leonard Detweiler and his associates.

Which means that the newly recruited members will be kept in the dark regarding who's actually downwind pulling the strings, what government is running things and under whose roof they actually dwell. Lies. All lies. They will be recruited by lies. Exactly like a cult. Which makes it a hot pot of soup to eventually spill over, when they do go public with the truth, and scald the living hell out of someone. A recipe for an uprising.

"What???! We're who? The government is g-g-going to b-b-be what? Run by who?"

cthia wrote:Let's try this again...

Renaissance Factor

The Renaissance Factor was the name given to a structure expected to arise in and around the Solarian League as it collapsed as a result of the long-term political and military strategies of the Mesan Alignment.

The planned strategy included a series of shocks to the military and political confidence of the Solarian League and its corrupt and bureaucratic governing structure. As a result, several star nations would then reluctantly conclude that they must withdraw from the collapsing League and form a workable polity from their part of the wreckage. Each of these would eventually realize that united, they could be more effective, producing a large political entity in the region of the former Solarian League. The project would be secretly furthered since each of these reluctantly withdrawing remnants of the Solarian League would be, in fact, cooperating members of the Mesan Alignment.

As of the early 1920s PD, each was led by a senior Alpha line member of the Alignment, from families long ago (in some cases, several centuries ago) placed on their planets as multi-generational Mesan agents. Each was directed by the highest leadership of the Mesan Alignment, on Mesa, led by Albrecht Detweiler. None of this was planned to be publicly known until well after a new polity had been established in what had been the Solarian League's territory, not one part of which had any connection (publicly) with Mesa or any of its criminal organizations, or the long abandoned plans to improve human genetics of the founders of Mesa, Leonard Detweiler and his associates.

The several star nations that will reluctantly conclude that they must form their own polity has to have some sort of government. Will they simply transfer Darius' government to this RF sponsored polity in the region of the Solarian League?

I don't think so. One reason is because they must dangle a tasty carrot in front of the naive, fractured members of the Solarian League, those remnants who are not previously sponsored and prepped members of the Mesan Alignment as they themselves are, in order to entice them to join. They must make the new polity seem sweet and tasty to the naked and uninformed eye -- putting forth a good foot, certainly holding back the horrid details that would indeed make the recruits just a bit jumpy. (Much like what cults do until you are hooked, line and sinkered.) I'd think that would amount to forming a government a bit less frightening than whatever monstrosity lives on Darius. These fractured systems are former Solarian League members who lived under a democracy. A far cry from whatever hails on Darius or even Mesa (I would think) for that matter.

Note the part where it says: None of this was planned to be publicly known until well after a new polity had been established in what had been the Solarian League's territory, not one part of which had any connection (publicly) with Mesa or any of its criminal organizations, or the long abandoned plans to improve human genetics of the founders of Mesa, Leonard Detweiler and his associates.

Which means that the newly recruited members will be kept in the dark regarding who's actually downwind pulling the strings, what government is running things and under whose roof they actually dwell. Lies. All lies. They will be recruited by lies. Exactly like a cult. Which makes it a hot pot of soup to eventually spill over, when they do go public with the truth, and scald the living hell out of someone. A recipe for an uprising.

"What???! We're who? The government is g-g-going to b-b-be what? Run by who?"

This is part of the reason I don't foresee the MAlign building a crazy large military. There goals are primarily political and social. Not military. They have a military component to them of course which is why the Lenny Dets, I just don't see them building a massive navy.

Maybe not a large military, but I wouldn't be surprised by a large secret police if it goes as Cthia suggests.

Here is another thought. Imagine Darius being found and neutralized as a threat. Then the RF develops as a normal star nation. Or do they take up the fallen cause...more powerful and dangerous than before. That is where a large military comes into play

Don

-

n7axw wrote:Maybe not a large military, but I wouldn't be surprised by a large secret police if it goes as Cthia suggests.

Here is another thought. Imagine Darius being found and neutralized as a threat. Then the RF develops as a normal star nation. Or do they take up the fallen cause...more powerful and dangerous than before. That is where a large military comes into play

Don

-

Politics need a chauffeur. Without someone to drive it, support it, protect it and enforce it, its dead in the water. What's the RF/Alignment going to do to dissenters?

They are going to need to establish bases. Basing strategies are predicated on specific needs, hardly ever on convenience. So, when those polities that the RF needs for whatever strategic purposes doesn't want to play along, what is it going to do? Is it going to like, and indeed accept, the GA gobbling up polities in its back yard? Especially if that back yard includes the junction that leads to Darius. The MA has a very ambitious political plan, and it isn't going to be a popular one out of the gate. And when it does come out into the open and step on lots of feet, some of these new members are going to want to secede. They're going to feel like they've been had, handled and abused just like the Mandarins fondled them. Who they gonna call?

"We're gonna call Manticore!"

It's amusing that what goes around comes around with a polity's right to secede all over again. Will the RF acknowledge this right? Right!

If they don't, they better have a navy with a little weight behind it. It may not be a large navy by the standards of the GA, yet. But I think it is meant to be a decisive navy. A theme Manticore adopted over Haven. And, they're not going to fight fair.

Hence, my notion of a government that will support their long term goals, yet not frighten away the natives. The Constitution is going to read like a cult. Give us all of your assets and one of your testicles. The Malign will need cash when they come out to play in the common galaxy. They're going to end up milking these star nations that joined them to support their cause. The RF is going to turn into Frontier Fleet all over again.

Another thing that amuses me. Will the fractured remnants that are orphaned want to rejoin a large part of a reforming League? Possibly, as far as they know, jumping right back into the witch's brew of the Old Solarian League ways? I'd think that they'd want to ensure that doesn't happen again. They are aware of Manticore and knows its true colors. They'll want to try something different, not something insane. And what will the RF have to say about that if it has no balls backed by a navy? Having been severely burned by the Mandarins, I think these fractured systems are going to be shy about trusting anyone else now that they've finally gotten their freedom. A new polity with a "holy-shit-what-kinda-government-is-this" isn't going to entice them to come running like the jingle of an ice cream truck.

Is it just me who sees that the MA isn't going to be able to accomplish their endgame on their salesmanship alone? That's going to be a hell of a sales pitch if so. They're going to have to steal, kill, kew, cull and bury some key people, mafia-style, behind the scenes. Much like what they hired Harahap to do. Which will lead again to Manticore getting a sniff of something wicked this way comes. Their end game is simply not going to be accomplished on charm and good looks alone.

One very poignant question. Where will the RF stand as far as the Eridani Edict is concerned? Again, they've got the ability to cull by kewing while saving infrastructure. They can shape governments to their will, while hiding amongst the naive, fractured citizens of the League -- who then will essentially be held hostage by a cult. The GA won't be able to simply storm the compound with innocents. What a squirmy bag of gummy worms.

cthia wrote:

n7axw wrote:Maybe not a large military, but I wouldn't be surprised by a large secret police if it goes as Cthia suggests.

Here is another thought. Imagine Darius being found and neutralized as a threat. Then the RF develops as a normal star nation. Or do they take up the fallen cause...more powerful and dangerous than before. That is where a large military comes into play

Don

-

Politics need a chauffeur. Without someone to drive it, support it, protect it and enforce it, its dead in the water. What's the RF/Alignment going to do to dissenters?

They are going to need to establish bases. Basing strategies are predicated on specific needs, hardly ever on convenience. So, when those polities that the RF needs for whatever strategic purposes doesn't want to play along, what is it going to do? Is it going to like, and indeed accept, the GA gobbling up polities in its back yard? Especially if that back yard includes the junction that leads to Darius. The MA has a very ambitious political plan, and it isn't going to be a popular one out of the gate. And when it does come out into the open and step on lots of feet, some of these new members are going to want to secede. They're going to feel like they've been had, handled and abused just like the Mandarins fondled them. Who they gonna call?

"We're gonna call Manticore!"

It's amusing that what goes around comes around with a polity's right to secede all over again. Will the RF acknowledge this right? Right!

If they don't, they better have a navy with a little weight behind it. It may not be a large navy by the standards of the GA, yet. But I think it is meant to be a decisive navy. A theme Manticore adopted over Haven. And, they're not going to fight fair.

Hence, my notion of a government that will support their long term goals, yet not frighten away the natives. The Constitution is going to read like a cult. Give us all of your assets and one of your testicles. The Malign will need cash when they come out to play in the common galaxy. They're going to end up milking these star nations that joined them to support their cause. The RF is going to turn into Frontier Fleet all over again.

Another thing that amuses me. Will the fractured remnants that are orphaned want to rejoin a large part of a reforming League? Possibly, as far as they know, jumping right back into the witch's brew of the Old Solarian League ways? I'd think that they'd want to ensure that doesn't happen again. They are aware of Manticore and knows its true colors. They'll want to try something different, not something insane. And what will the RF have to say about that if it has no balls backed by a navy? Having been severely burned by the Mandarins, I think these fractured systems are going to be shy about trusting anyone else now that they've finally gotten their freedom. A new polity with a "holy-shit-what-kinda-government-is-this" isn't going to entice them to come running like the jingle of an ice cream truck.

Is it just me who sees that the MA isn't going to be able to accomplish their endgame on their salesmanship alone? That's going to be a hell of a sales pitch if so. They're going to have to steal, kill, kew, cull and bury some key people, mafia-style, behind the scenes. Much like what they hired Harahap to do. Which will lead again to Manticore getting a sniff of something wicked this way comes. Their end game is simply not going to be accomplished on charm and good looks alone.

One very poignant question. Where will the RF stand as far as the Eridani Edict is concerned? Again, they've got the ability to cull by kewing while saving infrastructure. They can shape governments to their will, while hiding amongst the naive, fractured citizens of the League -- who then will essentially be held hostage by a cult. The GA won't be able to simply storm the compound with innocents. What a squirmy bag of gummy worms.

We have to remember there are 12 governments besides Darius in the RF. Each has a different form of government. Officially they can claim not to have been responsible for an Eridani violation. You need evidence for that and there is not all that much available.

Not hard to hide several thousand people on worlds that contain billions. The RF could go pretty far before getting into trouble. Remember that the concerns over genetics are basically over non-human genes. Not always easy to find out unless used cosmetically.

Recall that most of the Mesans and MAlign people did not like Manpower.

Proving a direct connection might be very difficult.

cthia wrote:

n7axw wrote:Maybe not a large military, but I wouldn't be surprised by a large secret police if it goes as Cthia suggests.

Here is another thought. Imagine Darius being found and neutralized as a threat. Then the RF develops as a normal star nation. Or do they take up the fallen cause...more powerful and dangerous than before. That is where a large military comes into play

Don

-

Politics need a chauffeur. Without someone to drive it, support it, protect it and enforce it, its dead in the water. What's the RF/Alignment going to do to dissenters?

They are going to need to establish bases. Basing strategies are predicated on specific needs, hardly ever on convenience. So, when those polities that the RF needs for whatever strategic purposes doesn't want to play along, what is it going to do? Is it going to like, and indeed accept, the GA gobbling up polities in its back yard? Especially if that back yard includes the junction that leads to Darius. The MA has a very ambitious political plan, and it isn't going to be a popular one out of the gate. And when it does come out into the open and step on lots of feet, some of these new members are going to want to secede. They're going to feel like they've been had, handled and abused just like the Mandarins fondled them. Who they gonna call?

"We're gonna call Manticore!"

It's amusing that what goes around comes around with a polity's right to secede all over again. Will the RF acknowledge this right? Right!

If they don't, they better have a navy with a little weight behind it. It may not be a large navy by the standards of the GA, yet. But I think it is meant to be a decisive navy. A theme Manticore adopted over Haven. And, they're not going to fight fair.

Hence, my notion of a government that will support their long term goals, yet not frighten away the natives. The Constitution is going to read like a cult. Give us all of your assets and one of your testicles. The Malign will need cash when they come out to play in the common galaxy. They're going to end up milking these star nations that joined them to support their cause. The RF is going to turn into Frontier Fleet all over again.

Another thing that amuses me. Will the fractured remnants that are orphaned want to rejoin a large part of a reforming League? Possibly, as far as they know, jumping right back into the witch's brew of the Old Solarian League ways? I'd think that they'd want to ensure that doesn't happen again. They are aware of Manticore and knows its true colors. They'll want to try something different, not something insane. And what will the RF have to say about that if it has no balls backed by a navy? Having been severely burned by the Mandarins, I think these fractured systems are going to be shy about trusting anyone else now that they've finally gotten their freedom. A new polity with a "holy-shit-what-kinda-government-is-this" isn't going to entice them to come running like the jingle of an ice cream truck.

Is it just me who sees that the MA isn't going to be able to accomplish their endgame on their salesmanship alone? That's going to be a hell of a sales pitch if so. They're going to have to steal, kill, kew, cull and bury some key people, mafia-style, behind the scenes. Much like what they hired Harahap to do. Which will lead again to Manticore getting a sniff of something wicked this way comes. Their end game is simply not going to be accomplished on charm and good looks alone.

One very poignant question. Where will the RF stand as far as the Eridani Edict is concerned? Again, they've got the ability to cull by kewing while saving infrastructure. They can shape governments to their will, while hiding amongst the naive, fractured citizens of the League -- who then will essentially be held hostage by a cult. The GA won't be able to simply storm the compound with innocents. What a squirmy bag of gummy worms.

ldwechsler wrote:We have to remember there are 12 governments besides Darius in the RF. Each has a different form of government. Officially they can claim not to have been responsible for an Eridani violation. You need evidence for that and there is not all that much available.

Not hard to hide several thousand people on worlds that contain billions. The RF could go pretty far before getting into trouble. Remember that the concerns over genetics are basically over non-human genes. Not always easy to find out unless used cosmetically.

Recall that most of the Mesans and MAlign people did not like Manpower.

Proving a direct connection might be very difficult.

Surely one of the RF sponsored planets will become the seat of government for the daughter colonies of the "Kingdom of the Clones."