[spoilers]What happens when Shannon Foraker meets...

waddles for desert wrote:Only "trusted people" should be in a physical position to access ship's systems should, or you have a hell of a problem to begin with.

The greater concern should be making ship's systems accessible to the people that are trying to make them run after taking battle damage. Are you going to lock out the people doing damage control because the guy with the supersecret authentication method is dead? solberg/kzt security should be fine for ship's systems.

One of the hardest problems to solve is physical security: in a very real sense, if a black hat can get his hands on the actual hardware, he can probably breach anything you can do.

waddles for desert wrote:Tacnet's should have JohnRoth like systems to be sure that the commands are coming from a ship legitimately in the net. But, the tac people running the tacnet should only have to go through kzt/solberg security to get their commands out over the net.

I suspect that most military officers would say that if you're in a working military vehicle like a warship, and you're sitting at the tac officer's console, and you pass some rather simple biometrics, you're authorized. It's simply a matter of risk assessment. The environment itself is high security, why should you get in people's way?

waddles for desert wrote:There was a comment, I believe by JohnRoth, that ship in command of the tacnet would not need access to control the sensors of other ships. If I understand correctly, the ship running the tacnet for an AESA equipped Aegis battle group directs and redirects the beams of the other ships in the tacnet. With AESA equipped ships, while there is probably a periodic/cyclic general search by each ship (hopefully), much of each ship's scan is directed by the controlling ship. I am not sure where they are with it, but emissions from two or more ships can at least theorectically be combined to form composite beams.

Hemphill's R&D folks and the spooks who drafted Cardones in With One Stone should be using the kind of security that JohnRoth advocates.

At one point I believe Heinlein had Lazarus Long make a comment to the effect that anyone who put a critical component out to the lowest bidder got what they deserved.

I loved this thread, including some of the more interesting tangents. I'll try to stick to the main argument on this thread. I think the best analogy about the meeting between Shannon Foraker and Sonya Hemphill would be that they would work like Zilwicki and Cachat. Hemphill is mostly a strategist with political acumen. Although she has a good basis on the technical side, it doesn't seem Hemphill is a a hands-on engineering type. All we've read is that she's the leader of a school of thought within the Royal Manticoran Navy that believed in the advantage of technology in breaking the tactical logjam that naval warfare has had for a couple of centuries.

Shannon, on the other hand, is a tech nerd. She is a good conceptual engineer who is able to coax the most out of Havenite technology which was second best in a war to the death against the guys with the best technology around. Was she part of the tactical doctrine prior to Haven's new offensive against Manticore.

I foresee Hemphill working the organizational and political side, with Shannon being the nuts-and-bolts person. If Shannon stays at Bolthole (which makes a great deal of sense as it is still secret), then Hemphill will probably be commuting to the base from time to time.

Still with those two working together, it will be a bad day for a couple of decision-makers in the Renaissance Factor. Shannon with he wicked ability to pull technological rabbits out of her hat and to come up with new and creative ways to work with the limits imposed by technology and Hemphill bulldozing any political opposition to their plans... I don't want to be anywhere near any target list when they let loose those two.

Kruhn wrote:Still with those two working together, it will be a bad day for a couple of decision-makers in the Renaissance Factor. Shannon with he wicked ability to pull technological rabbits out of her hat and to come up with new and creative ways to work with the limits imposed by technology and Hemphill bulldozing any political opposition to their plans... I don't want to be anywhere near any target list when they let loose those two.

I see it as more along the lines of Hemphill being the ideas person and Foraker being the nuts-and-bolts person.

When you get a team that can conceptualize new, useful things AND figure out how to implement them efficiently, thats a team to watch out for.

Cheopis wrote:I see it as more along the lines of Hemphill being the ideas person and Foraker being the nuts-and-bolts person.

When you get a team that can conceptualize new, useful things AND figure out how to implement them efficiently, thats a team to watch out for.

I don't get why people see Shannon as not being innovative.

She is just as impressive as Hemphill, perhaps even moreso - just differently.

She has a problem, she finds a solution. Not Hemphill's solution, but a solution none the less.

Reminds me of the great "Stopping Power" debate in the 1980's and 90's.

Some people argues for light and fast bullets - others heavy & slow...

Yet that's a technology argument. Other people just carried on, trained harder and practiced head shots with whatever they carried.

Sure, it's more difficult, and takes a lot more skill...and doesn't have the innovation that the better bullets on the market today have - but it had the benifit of working well.

all this debate is well and good, but one thing is for sure...

Rose's feels will never be the same. and neither will mine!!!

GofyTomcat1 wrote:all this debate is well and good, but one thing is for sure...

Rose's feels will never be the same. and neither will mine!!!

You.

I'm keeping you.

*runs off to write the Shannon/Sonja version of "Love Will Find A Way"*

roseandheather wrote:

GofyTomcat1 wrote:all this debate is well and good, but one thing is for sure...

Rose's feels will never be the same. and neither will mine!!!

You.

I'm keeping you.

*runs off to write the Shannon/Sonja version of "Love Will Find A Way"*

let me know when you finish.

GofyTomcat1 wrote:SNIP
let me know when you finish.

Shannon will never get distracted by a personal relation - neither with man nor with woman. Shannon lives and breaths for her work.

IMHO who will lead a dev-tem is a political question .- not one of who is better at the job (I am reding the novels with a delay due to the fact I have to wait until they are available in German )

Neither side will be happy that critical tech ís researched with "the enemy" - moreso under the "lead" of the enemy.

Both governments will face stiff opposition over this issue.

I believe that - for some time at least - we will get two separate (three - Grayson on its own? - they might not be happy about the warming relations between the Manties and Haven) teams who try to figure out whats in the new tech.

I bet the "traitor" will get a nice pile of "bonus-lightyears" travelling back and forth

Ultimately both (all) teams will have to sit together to compare results.

I would not be surprised if those "new" technologies will be actually "old" tech used in a new way

Kater wrote:

GofyTomcat1 wrote:SNIP
let me know when you finish.

Shannon will never get distracted by a personal relation - neither with man nor with woman. Shannon lives and breaths for her work.

IMHO who will lead a dev-tem is a political question .- not one of who is better at the job (I am reding the novels with a delay due to the fact I have to wait until they are available in German )

Neither side will be happy that critical tech ís researched with "the enemy" - moreso under the "lead" of the enemy.

Both governments will face stiff opposition over this issue.

I believe that - for some time at least - we will get two separate (three - Grayson on its own? - they might not be happy about the warming relations between the Manties and Haven) teams who try to figure out whats in the new tech.

I bet the "traitor" will get a nice pile of "bonus-lightyears" travelling back and forth

Ultimately both (all) teams will have to sit together to compare results.

I would not be surprised if those "new" technologies will be actually "old" tech used in a new way

Actually Graysons are far more likely to welcome and treat Havenites much more pleasantly than most Manticorans. Remember quite a large number of former Havenite officers defected to the Allies side and wound up working in the Grayson Navy were they were less mistrusted, even offered Grayson citizenship and High Office. Alfredo Yu, a skilled pre-war officer defected before the war and is now the High Admiral of the Grayson Navy. Abigail Huerns noted in one book "you Manties tend to view Haven as the fount of all evil in the universe", and the main reason the GA actually works is that so many of both sides High Command respect each other so well. However they are still working out all the kinks and there maybe some trouble in the future as a result of old wounds.

I agree about the "old in a new way" argument though because it effectively has already happened. The first piece of Havenite/Manticoran joint work is the "Mycroft" star-system defense platforms, which is basically Manticoran tech being deployed in a Havenite developed manner.

Valen123456 wrote:

Kater wrote:
Shannon will never get distracted by a personal relation - neither with man nor with woman. Shannon lives and breaths for her work.

IMHO who will lead a dev-tem is a political question .- not one of who is better at the job (I am reding the novels with a delay due to the fact I have to wait until they are available in German )

Neither side will be happy that critical tech ís researched with "the enemy" - moreso under the "lead" of the enemy.

Both governments will face stiff opposition over this issue.

I believe that - for some time at least - we will get two separate (three - Grayson on its own? - they might not be happy about the warming relations between the Manties and Haven) teams who try to figure out whats in the new tech.

I bet the "traitor" will get a nice pile of "bonus-lightyears" travelling back and forth

Ultimately both (all) teams will have to sit together to compare results.

I would not be surprised if those "new" technologies will be actually "old" tech used in a new way

Actually Graysons are far more likely to welcome and treat Havenites much more pleasantly than most Manticorans. Remember quite a large number of former Havenite officers defected to the Allies side and wound up working in the Grayson Navy were they were less mistrusted, even offered Grayson citizenship and High Office. Alfredo Yu, a skilled pre-war officer defected before the war and is now the High Admiral of the Grayson Navy. Abigail Huerns noted in one book "you Manties tend to view Haven as the fount of all evil in the universe", and the main reason the GA actually works is that so many of both sides High Command respect each other so well. However they are still working out all the kinks and there maybe some trouble in the future as a result of old wounds.

I agree about the "old in a new way" argument though because it effectively has already happened. The first piece of Havenite/Manticoran joint work is the "Mycroft" star-system defense platforms, which is basically Manticoran tech being deployed in a Havenite developed manner.

Quick correction, Judah Yanakov is High Admiral of the Grayson Space Navy. Yu is second-in-command (and de facto commanding officer, as the official CO is Honor herself) of the Protector's Own.

Other than that, I agree with you. Grayson has been as hurt by the Havenite wars as Manticore, and the Pierre-St Just regime did some pretty awful things, but after Masada, Haven had to look like Father Christmas.