Control Missile for shipboard launched missiles

It should be noted that WAAAY back in IN ENEMY HANDS, Prince Adrian, a light? Cruiser, took 12 PEEP capital grade missile hits. Pretty much toasted the ship. I think if it was not for plot reasons the ship would have blown up as we have seen several other battles where light cruisers did NOT fare well at all even to MUCH lighter missile laser heads. Go back to HotQ etc. Also in IN ENEMY HANDS, we also have PEEPs using first iteration PODS with capital grade laser heads taking out upwards of BC's with them at Adler etc.

Unless you magically hit either a fusion plant or completely destroy the compensator with a missile laser head, ships can absorb quite a pounding.

I think BC's require around 50-100 capital grade hits. Of course this also depends on the NUMBER of laser rods per capital grade missile.

MK-16 including Mod-G has 6 laser rods lighter than capital grade PRHN/RMN laser rods, but better than SLN capital grade laser rods.

MK23 and presumably PEEP equivalent have 10 laser rods.

Prince Adrian, a light? Cruiser, took 12 PEEP capital grade missile hits.

She was a Prince Consort class heavy cruiser. And it was 9 missiles (4 down the throat) which basically mission killed her.

wastedfly wrote:It should be noted that WAAAY back in IN ENEMY HANDS, Prince Adrian, a light? Cruiser, took 12 PEEP capital grade missile hits. Pretty much toasted the ship. I think if it was not for plot reasons the ship would have blown up as we have seen several other battles where light cruisers did NOT fare well at all even to MUCH lighter missile laser heads. Go back to HotQ etc. Also in IN ENEMY HANDS, we also have PEEPs using first iteration PODS with capital grade laser heads taking out upwards of BC's with them at Adler etc.

Unless you magically hit either a fusion plant or completely destroy the compensator with a missile laser head, ships can absorb quite a pounding.

I think BC's require around 50-100 capital grade hits. Of course this also depends on the NUMBER of laser rods per capital grade missile.

MK-16 including Mod-G has 6 laser rods lighter than capital grade PRHN/RMN laser rods, but better than SLN capital grade laser rods.

MK23 and presumably PEEP equivalent have 10 laser rods.

There's more that goes into that as well, following Wasted Fly's example, The Prince Adrian was a nearly 50 year old CA, built before the laserhead threat. in contrast, the newer Star Knight had a revised armor scheme in light of laser heads and much more powerful sidewalls. IFF notes that it's armor was "tweaked" to protect best against the known frequencies of Havenite laserheads, something the Prince Adrian didn't have.

So while the old Prince A only took a dozen capitol hits - a slightly larger Star Knight may be able to absorb 2 dozen or more before it sucumbs. And any BC SHOULD be able to absorb 3-4 times the pounding a CA can.

Bill Woods wrote:If the only deterrent to that is to use more/bigger ships, then the sollies' tactics has already succeeded.

If the Sollies are clumping their commerce raiders in multi-squadron task forces, the obvious response is to dispense with convoys. Use SDF craft to escort freighters past the hyper limit and send them off. If the Sollies want to waste a dozen BCs chasing down one freighter, well....[/quote]
Luckily, LACs can't get to the alpha side of the hyper limit. And given that you have a 60:1 compression, that makes the hyperlimit on Alpha about 40 LS across. So guess where the bad guys wait?

kzt wrote:

Bill Woods wrote:If the only deterrent to that is to use more/bigger ships, then the sollies' tactics has already succeeded.

If the Sollies are clumping their commerce raiders in multi-squadron task forces, the obvious response is to dispense with convoys. Use SDF craft to escort freighters past the hyper limit and send them off. If the Sollies want to waste a dozen BCs chasing down one freighter, well....

Luckily, LACs can't get to the alpha side of the hyper limit. And given that you have a 60:1 compression, that makes the hyperlimit on Alpha about 40 LS across. So guess where the bad guys wait?[/quote]

umm I don't believe that is quite accurate about the LAC's

My understanding is that the real difference between LAC's and full up ships, is that they cannot convert their wedges to sails, and they do not mount hyper drives.

so as long as the system is not in a grav wave the LACS can cruse around wherever they want (at their high sublight speeds/accelerations) this means they can run across the hyper limit all they want. its typically NOT a good idea because FTL ships can suddenly "drop" out of hyper on top of them at any time and engage at their preferred ranges.

wastedfly wrote:It should be noted that WAAAY back in IN ENEMY HANDS, Prince Adrian, a light? Cruiser, took 12 PEEP capital grade missile hits. Pretty much toasted the ship.

...
I think BC's require around 50-100 capital grade hits. Of course this also depends on the NUMBER of laser rods per capital grade missile.

I think that's overly pessimistic, given the total destruction of the SLN BCs at Saltash by Ninety-nine Mod-G warheads.

It is also highly dependent on whose BCs you're killing. A new RMN, GSN, or RHN BC is going to absorb more damage and/or kill more attack missiles than a SLN Indefatigable class. Even a SLN Nevada class is going to fare better.

I doubt that 10-12 capital grade warhead hits will destroy any BC, but that number should have a decent chance at a mission kill on any SLN ship below an SD. I'd guess 30-40 would be sufficient to overwhelm defenses and scrap a SLN BC, but it would take twice that to scrap any Haven Sector BC -- because RMN, GSN, and RHN battle cruisers are bigger and better armored than SLN BCs and have better anti-missile defenses.

Guardiandashi wrote:

kzt wrote:Luckily, LACs can't get to the alpha side of the hyper limit. And given that you have a 60:1 compression, that makes the hyperlimit on Alpha about 40 LS across. So guess where the bad guys wait?

umm I don't believe that is quite accurate about the LAC's

My understanding is that the real difference between LAC's and full up ships, is that they cannot convert their wedges to sails, and they do not mount hyper drives.

so as long as the system is not in a grav wave the LACS can cruse around wherever they want (at their high sublight speeds/accelerations) this means they can run across the hyper limit all they want. its typically NOT a good idea because FTL ships can suddenly "drop" out of hyper on top of them at any time and engage at their preferred ranges.

I believe kzt used "alpha side" to mean waiting in hyperspace in the lowest alpha band, near the hyper limit.

You're correct that LACs can easily fly out past the hyper limit -- in n-space. But that doesn't help them find someone waiting in hyper.


IIRC kzt has long been a proponent of waiting in hyper to bounce out outbound freighters. (I say outbound, because inbound freighters are going to be dropping very quickly though the alpha bands into n-space -- and chasing them down their exposes your raiders to system defense MDM pods; and avoiding those was the whole reason you were camping out in hyper)
I suspect if it was that easy that everybody would already be doing it; but he's certainly right that a LAC and pod SDF can't do anything about people who won't come into n-space.

Well since we are comparing number of missiles required to Destroy stuff.

From FIE we know that 532 Capital SDMs take out 10 or 12 BBs (hard to say as 2 BBs collided wedges trying to dodge).

So a good estimate is ~50 for a RHN BB.

Hard to think a ship 1/5th the size is going to take the same amount of damage.

If we look in SVW the number of missile hits required to take out a RMN BC seems to be somewhere between 5-20.

Big thing is it is hard to do critical damage to a DN or SD with a single Capital Missile. BCs have a good chance of just because the difference in armor amounts and schemes.

Have fun sorting it out,
T2M

Appendix: Thought I should include the textev. As it is definitely a case of overkill.

FIE Chapter 33 wrote:No one could ever reconstruct exactly what happened. Not even the surviving Allied computers could sort it all out afterward, but five seconds after BatRon One’s first laser head detonated, eleven Havenite battleships—including PNS Conquistador—no longer existed, and a twelfth was a broken, dying wreck tumbling uselessly through space.

Jonathan_S wrote:

Guardiandashi wrote:umm I don't believe that is quite accurate about the LAC's

My understanding is that the real difference between LAC's and full up ships, is that they cannot convert their wedges to sails, and they do not mount hyper drives.

so as long as the system is not in a grav wave the LACS can cruse around wherever they want (at their high sublight speeds/accelerations) this means they can run across the hyper limit all they want. its typically NOT a good idea because FTL ships can suddenly "drop" out of hyper on top of them at any time and engage at their preferred ranges.

I believe kzt used "alpha side" to mean waiting in hyperspace in the lowest alpha band, near the hyper limit.

You're correct that LACs can easily fly out past the hyper limit -- in n-space. But that doesn't help them find someone waiting in hyper.


IIRC kzt has long been a proponent of waiting in hyper to bounce out outbound freighters. (I say outbound, because inbound freighters are going to be dropping very quickly though the alpha bands into n-space -- and chasing them down their exposes your raiders to system defense MDM pods; and avoiding those was the whole reason you were camping out in hyper)
I suspect if it was that easy that everybody would already be doing it; but he's certainly right that a LAC and pod SDF can't do anything about people who won't come into n-space.

Assuming that the system is not in a grav wave, and you suspect that there are readers sitting in hyper around your system, you could take a bunch of LACs, have them tractor pods, and have them sit on the hull of a merchant or two. Use the merchants to haul them up into hyper, and let the LACs and pods do some damage. Not a prime solution, but better than letting the bad guy make your system an Island.

Jonathan_S wrote:I believe kzt used "alpha side" to mean waiting in hyperspace in the lowest alpha band, near the hyper limit.

You're correct that LACs can easily fly out past the hyper limit -- in n-space. But that doesn't help them find someone waiting in hyper.


IIRC kzt has long been a proponent of waiting in hyper to bounce out outbound freighters. (I say outbound, because inbound freighters are going to be dropping very quickly though the alpha bands into n-space -- and chasing them down their exposes your raiders to system defense MDM pods; and avoiding those was the whole reason you were camping out in hyper)
I suspect if it was that easy that everybody would already be doing it; but he's certainly right that a LAC and pod SDF can't do anything about people who won't come into n-space.

I think a gutsy(or the first one to do it...) SLN raider CO might risk dropping into n-space in pursuit of a freighter, if all they want to do is kill said freighter. It wouldn't take more than a single broadside or chase launch to swat the poor merchie, then pop back into hyper. They might even simply cut their missiles loose and jump out as soon as their generators cycle.

It happened before the first Havenite war, with Peep raiders chasing the last ship from a convoy into Yeltsin's Star and destroying it before popping back into hyper.

No way around it, it does need hyper-capable warships to go up there and chase the buggers away. But outbound vessels could choose a random course away from the star and cruise through n-space for a while to get outside of alpha-wall detection range or sufficiently close to it that a running start lets them evade the sitting raiders.