Very Disappointed....

Relax wrote:

isaac_newton wrote:That's a shame - but why not suspend judgement until you actually read the next book?

Because she has to make money goober. If your book shelf space is full of crappy books of authors who used to write good stuff and who hasn't for 5 years, guess what? Throw it out.

PS.She didn't say anything about not holding book space for his older good books which have a thing called a relevant plot. This book was an anthology book put forward in disguise of a "real" book. As an anthology book it would have been good. As a book in a series, it is crap.

The "goober" really wasn't necessary, Relax.

He has a point. He didn't say anything about her keeping the book on her shelves or even recommending the book to any of her customers. He simply asked her why she cannot withhold her "overall" judgement until the final book. If you haven't assimilated what she has said, she is "giving up" on the series entirely, right before the finish line. Why not hold her final judgement until after she at least reads the final book - whether she chooses to stock the book on her shelves (or recommend to her customers with a favorable review) or not. She owes that to herself. Her judgement is final when the series isn't.

Whether it is believed or not, the author very well could redeem himself and all of the "allegedly" "superfluous" chapters in SOV may very well be necessary for the culmination of the series. It would be even worse if all of that material went into the final book, wouldn't it? Sometimes you have to clean the house before you can entertain the company. If it turns out that this book really is crap, and was totally unnecessary as a prelude to the final, then it will remain so even after the final. And you can "truthfully" stamp an "informed" opinion then. One bad apple shouldn't be allowed to spoil the whole bunch.

An "absolute" judgement of the author and this book is a bit premature before you at least read the final. I suspect that she will at least "read" if not "purchase" the final book. We are human that way. And if the final turns out to serve crow — inasmuch as all of the material in this book was necessary — and becomes a bestseller, then she has to carry the book in her store. After all, she does want to make money.

It would be like judging Secretariat on his previous race with the abcessed tooth. Which many people later regret.

For fans, I cannot understand not purchasing this book to avoid a hole in the collection.

Aside:
Carolyn, I perused your site and was pleased that you carry one of my favorite authors, Christine Feehan. But I was shocked that you don't carry her "Ghostwalker" series — which is my favorite series of hers and one of my favorite series of all. Is it not popular with your customers?

cthia wrote:

Relax wrote:
"That's a shame - but why not suspend judgement until you actually read the next book?" [quoting me]

Because she has to make money goober. If your book shelf space is full of crappy books of authors who used to write good stuff and who hasn't for 5 years, guess what? Throw it out.

SNIP .

The "goober" really wasn't necessary, Relax.

He has a point. He didn't say anything about her keeping the book on her shelves or even recommending the book to any of her customers. He simply asked her why she cannot withhold her "overall" judgement until the final book. If you haven't assimilated what she has said, she is "giving up" on the series entirely, right before the finish line. Why not hold her final judgement until after she at least reads the final book - whether she chooses to stock the book on her shelves (or recommend to her customers with a favorable review) or not. She owes that to herself. Her judgement is final when the series isn't.
SNIP?

Thanks Cthia - you got my point immediately.

Relax - I dont suppose that many people on this forum would appreciate being called a 'goober' - which seems to be rather derogatory.

Looking back, I guess that the 'actually' in my quote might have come across as being ironic or something unpleasant like suggesting Carolyn was being stupid - but it was a honest suggestion/enquiry. I guess that we are all looking for mighty things from the next book - hence my comment.

pbplace wrote:I am forced to disagree with any defense of this last book. It was not necessary to confuse us with all of these unnecessary new characters and subplots. For those of you who believe Weber is positioning all of his characters in this book for the big showdown in the next - my response is: He could have done that in two chapters at the beginning of the final book. Instead he apparently caved to his publisher's demands to provide a new book and make them $$$$$$$. As I stated in my previous post, I will not be purchasing his next book and I will not be recommending it to any of my customers. Oh, did I mention that I own a small independent book store?
Carolyn
The Paperback Place
82 S. Main St.
Canandaigua, NY

Owning a book store is a very bad idea. I sell all my books through Amazon.com worldwide and barely sell any books. I presume your book store is just a hobby?

Lord Skimper wrote:

pbplace wrote:I am forced to disagree with any defense of this last book. It was not necessary to confuse us with all of these unnecessary new characters and subplots. For those of you who believe Weber is positioning all of his characters in this book for the big showdown in the next - my response is: He could have done that in two chapters at the beginning of the final book. Instead he apparently caved to his publisher's demands to provide a new book and make them $$$$$$$. As I stated in my previous post, I will not be purchasing his next book and I will not be recommending it to any of my customers. Oh, did I mention that I own a small independent book store?
Carolyn
The Paperback Place
82 S. Main St.
Canandaigua, NY

Owning a book store is a very bad idea. I sell all my books through Amazon.com worldwide and barely sell any books. I presume your book store is just a hobby?

Just because you don't sell many books doesn't necessarily mean that owning a bookstore is a bad idea...

So, no one knows what the word goober means... How typical.

Goober: Actual definition: Peanut
Slang: A kindhearted oblivious person, term of endearment sometimes.

So, (EDIT: Not Cthia, I'Newtons's) statement, while kindhearted towards his favorite author DW who can do no wrong, was ultimately blatantly oblivious to reality.

Saying to reserve judgement for the next book when the last 5 have been horrid, be it Honorverse or Safehold as a bookstore owner whom can't sell bad books and whom has to make a thing called a living wage in a bad book selling market, one has to be a goober to believe such blase simplicity as to how the world works.

PS. Sure miss George Carlin.

Sometimes characters and stories take on a life of their own.

Anyone read the forward to one of Terry Pratchett's novels (Equal Rites, IIRC)?

"This book is about sex, but not in the 'count the number of legs and divide by two kind', unless the characters slip out of my control. They might."

I rather suspect that is what has happened here. (Err, characters running amok. Not the sex thing.)

Relax wrote:So, no one knows what the word goober means... How typical.

Goober: Actual definition: Peanut
Slang: A kindhearted oblivious person, term of endearment sometimes.

So, (EDIT: Not Cthia, I'Newtons's) statement, while kindhearted towards his favorite author DW who can do no wrong, was ultimately blatantly oblivious to reality.

Saying to reserve judgement for the next book when the last 5 have been horrid, be it Honorverse or Safehold as a bookstore owner whom can't sell bad books and whom has to make a thing called a living wage in a bad book selling market, one has to be a goober to believe such blase simplicity as to how the world works.

PS. Sure miss George Carlin.

There is no need to call anyone names of any sort — be it a peanut, a walnut or a Brazil nut. It is inappropriate, inconsiderate, irresponsible, demeaning, childish, unprofessional, ill mannered and totally unacceptable. Especially directed at a guy exercising a decent gesture and reaching out to another reader with compassion.


If you are having trouble at times knowing how to address a person, try their login name. I think that's part of its purpose. I always refer to you as Relax, regardless of whether you ever seem to.

But alas. I have faith that you can rise above, and that you are better than this. Even if it does turn out to simply be another one of my many Honorverse pipe dreams.

I have to keep reminding myself that a college degree does not come with the batteries included gift of savoir faire.

George Carlin was a professional entertainer, not an acting professional. Your remark was neither professional or entertaining.

RedBaron wrote:I think the last chapter of the final book should briefly outline what happened to the notable characters after all is done, kind of like what they did at the end of various movies in the 80's and 90's (such as "Stripes" and "animal house").

I think we'd ALL like to know where they went/what they did and so forth.

People like:
Abigail Hearns (first female Grayson to join the navy)
Scotty Tremaine
Horrace Harkness
Ginger Lewis
Abrey Wanderman
Michael Oversteegan
Thandi Palane
Victor Cachat
Anton Zilwicki
Berry Zilwicki
Rachael Mayhew & Hipper
Thomas Theisman
Lester Tourville
Shannon Foraker
Samantha
etc

I will definitely give a big +1 to that.
However i expect it will likely be so much that it is probably more suitable for a separate anthology.

I also have a feeling that the official end may not be what many would call a "real" end.
That seems to have become far too common in book series over the last 10-15 years.


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pbplace wrote: am very disappointed in the new Honorverse book. I wasted my money on a retelling of the same story that was told in the last four books. Shadow of Victory should have started from the end of Cauldron of Ghosts, with Michelle showing up to kick Mesa butt. Instead it begins BEFORE the battle of manticore and introduces TOO MANY new (and unnecessary) characters.

You exaggerate, but you´re not totally wrong.
Making whole extra books for the sake of additional viewpoints is not a great idea.

Yes the last 4 books might very well have been much better off as 3 books, possibly with an extra 50-100 pages each.
OR, instead of the annoying doubling up, we could have gotten additional viewpoints on the broader side of events.

Problem that jumps out to me is that the last few books have been working hard on creating a major buildup of the kind that i would then expect to need at least a couple of books just to finish all the plotlines currently in the spotlight, even if mostly ignoring all the plotlines that have recently been taken off the headlines.

Sure, part of the problem is surely that Mr Weber ended up "hurrying" the storyline due to timeline changes while writing(a change i still firmly consider an almost certain improvement, especially since the books with Eric Flint that caused it, are some of the best), but that doesn´t change that as it stands now, finishing the series with a single book is going to be extremely difficult to do without pulling heavily on the author fiat and pushing the "god-mode" button vigorously.

I´m pretty sure the author will damned well TRY to make the end as good as it deserves, but it´s hard to expect it.


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Lord Skimper wrote:Owning a book store is a very bad idea. I sell all my books through Amazon.com worldwide and barely sell any books

Hmm, let´s see? I buy about 90% of my books through the SFB(Science Fiction&Fantasy Bookstore), yes i COULD buy some of them through amazon and the like, but prices are mostly the same and i can usually get discounts when i buy.
More importantly, if a book is damaged or something, the store instantly takes care of it with zero expense, effort, trouble or waiting time for me.
And of course, being able to email or call the store and get an answer instantly or almost, amazon in comparison is just pure annoyance and grief to deal with.

I think the essence of the problem is that we were all expecting A and got B instead. Its like we went to a restaurant, ordered what we thought was flourless chocolate cake, and got a parfait instead. It doesn't matter how good the parfait is, you still feel disappointed. We were all expecting a book that moves the plotline forward significantly and would be the build-up to the last book of the series. Instead we got a background book that just fills in details and could have been better marketed as the adventures of Firebrand/Operation Janus. It's an interesting book, but disappointed everyone because we were expecting something equivalent to War of Honor and got this instead.

Greentea wrote:I think the essence of the problem is that we were all expecting A and got B instead. Its like we went to a restaurant, ordered what we thought was flourless chocolate cake, and got a parfait instead. It doesn't matter how good the parfait is, you still feel disappointed. We were all expecting a book that moves the plotline forward significantly and would be the build-up to the last book of the series. Instead we got a background book that just fills in details and could have been better marketed as the adventures of Firebrand/Operation Janus. It's an interesting book, but disappointed everyone because we were expecting something equivalent to War of Honor and got this instead.

Yeah, pretty much. But it seems to me, RFC submitted a synopsis to Baen. Baen's blurb writing department created this spectacular concept of what the book was going to be based on this synopsis. book did [or did not???] live up to the synopsis but not [obviously] to Baen's advance marketing. We're all mad at RFC for Baen's marketing?

Which is not to say that all the criticism of the book is off the mark. I remarked on the other thread dealing with this issue. I pretty much said what you did.

In a Motel in Sunny California on my first re-read.