SLN Logistics

Weird Harold wrote:

jdtinIA wrote:The problem with using civilian ships to carry logs. for the SLN is that those same ships will be needed to keep things from falling apart internally.

The SLN can always use warships for critical supplies; not exactly the most efficient way to transport logistics, but the SLN does have a lot of ships that aren't good for much else.

The Solarian League is short of interstellar transport in general and that's going to affect everyone. The SLN is probably going to have to resort to special runs for critical parts/supplies using whatever is available. That isn't the same as allocating fleet train assets to internal logistics.

Its about the stupidest way to haul anything.

Weird Harold wrote:

jdtinIA wrote:The problem with using civilian ships to carry logs. for the SLN is that those same ships will be needed to keep things from falling apart internally.

The SLN can always use warships for critical supplies; not exactly the most efficient way to transport logistics, but the SLN does have a lot of ships that aren't good for much else.

The Solarian League is short of interstellar transport in general and that's going to affect everyone. The SLN is probably going to have to resort to special runs for critical parts/supplies using whatever is available. That isn't the same as allocating fleet train assets to internal logistics.

There is only so much you can use a warship for in terms of transport and cargo capacity. And it's not much at the best of times.

WeirdlyWired wrote:MA plant inside the SLN:" We don't gotta send our SDs against manty SDs, We got TONS of battlecruisers that can outrun Manty SDs. we send 'em in squadron sized detachments for guerre des courses.(commerce raids)

Mandarin #1: great idea.

UH does anyone remember that Haven is the master of commerce raiding? Why bother with a fleet train for logistics, those system LACs willrip them to shreds before they need re-supply.

That may very well be true, but their logic goes that the GA cannot be strong everywhere. We know that even the weakest system defence can take a bite out of any SLN raid even if they ultimately have to surrender the exchange rate would be unsustainable. But we know that as the reader, if I was in the place of the SLN, I might be thinking the exact same strategy.

saber964 wrote:Its about the stupidest way to haul anything.

About as stupid as sending an F-4G from Spangdahlem AB, Germany to Davis Montham AFB (the "Boneyard") for a nose-wheel strut (with a special shop-built adapter for the center-line bomb rack) because that was the only place one was available.

Doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Yes, it is horrible inefficient to use warships as transports (see escape for Hades) or as freighters, but when they're the only ships available, you use them.

The SLN can get away with using warships inside the League boundaries. They will have more trouble doing so in the Verge or with commerce raiders; Those are going to need whatever "fleet train" the SLN can scrape together -- civilian shipping needs be damned.

Weird Harold wrote:
That's why I said it depends on how dense the SLN bases/depot are. If it is hundreds of light years between bases there is more of a logistics problem than if they're only 50 LY apart.

Can you imagine the SLN having to runback to the nearest supply base to resupply and repair? How long can they stay on station without resupply? And if they deploy to dozens of systems to "protect" them, can they maintain those forces? Even if the SLN does battle with the SDF's, they would still spend munitions and repairs. The SLN has a lot of SD's to spread around but if they want to keep the verge and protectorates they cannot pull too many of their lighter ships from there and the BF doesn't have as many light combatants as it should.

Weird Harold wrote:The RMN's Eighth Fleet didn't take a fleet train with them to Lovat, they returned to Trevor's Star to re-supply and re-arm. There is no particular reason the SLN can't do something similar for punitive expeditions within League boundaries. They can tap any loyal league member for supplies (other than armaments) and rape and pillage secessionist systems once they're subdued.

There is only so much violence that the League can visit upon it's member systems that want to secede before they go from intimidating those who want to leave to actually having the opposite effect. And then there is the SLN to think about, how long do you think it will survive as a cohesive force if it can't stand up to GA and at the same time is attacking it's own systems.

Weird Harold wrote:Moving things between bases/depots or from manufacturers to bases/depots might be a problem, and corruption, embezzlement, and graft might hamper efficiency, but the "Fleet Train" won't be involved in those operations. "Fleet Train" -- as in SLN-owned freighters with military shielding and drives -- aren't needed if they aren't accompanying a task force; normal merchant-grade freighters can handle normal logistics moves between bases/depots.

Can the League afford to take out the few remaining merchant ships it has left to support attacking it's own member systems? The GA hasn't started commerce raiding but if they figure they can cripple the SLN's ability to maintain ships on station they can and will start. And the League will be pushing away it's member systems by being overly aggressive to it's member systems that try to secede and two taking away the few remaining freighters from League members thereby amplifying the economic pain and suffering of the remaining member systems.

Weird Harold wrote:If the SLN is going to have logistics problems, it won't be within League boundaries or the lack of a "fleet train." The shortage of a fleet train will be felt in the commerce raiding operation, and that is going to be a fairly severe shortage. Frontier Fleet is going to have to rely on the same out-and-back raiding that the RMN used against Haven.

I think the SLN would have a logistics problem even within the League itself because their strategy relied on bases resupplying fleets thereby they had a small fleet train. Capture/destroy the bases and they would require a lot of freighters to support their ships from farther away. If the SLN decides to picket 100 systems with SD's, that would require resupply for those pickets because they want to keep their industry rather than destroying it. If the League makes itself look more dangerous to its own people than the GA then they are shooting themselves in the foot.

Sigs wrote:Can you imagine the SLN having to runback to the nearest supply base to resupply and repair? How long can they stay on station without resupply? And if they deploy to dozens of systems to "protect" them, can they maintain those forces?

I can imagine it very easily since I worked on extended deployments that required rotating aircraft back to home base for periodic maintenance and ferrying parts and supplies in baggage pods or once-a-week C130 deliveries of troops and supplies.

If the concept of "Forward Operating Locations" survives 4000 years of corruption, they SLN can picket systems with as few as four ships -- with one rotating back to base for resupply at any one time.

Sigs wrote:There is only so much violence that the League can visit upon it's member systems that want to secede before they go from intimidating those who want to leave to actually having the opposite effect. And then there is the SLN to think about, how long do you think it will survive as a cohesive force if it can't stand up to GA and at the same time is attacking it's own systems.

When have the Mandarins exhibited any concern about member systems other than the fiscal impact of reduced trade? For that matter, when have the Mandarins exhibited any sort of contact with reality?

The Mandarins will continue to use force for as long as they can get away with it. Beowulf is going to set the pattern for any member that wants to secede. It will indeed have the opposite effect to what the intend, and they're going to run out of warships as well as logistics in short order. I don't think the Mandarins are going to notice; they'll just keep giving orders and reacting as if the orders were carried out successfully.

I just realised they never had to launch such a large scale campaign or had to have such a far reaching and limited logistic system. Sure they bullied world, Pirates but no one was going into a proper fight against the league. They are really inexperienced. They would need to create supply depots to support their ships, while manties won't go after the league it self, these fleet stations are clear immobile targets.

Mesa had wanted the league to break their fleet against other nations, so they would have encouraged negative aspects like corruption and incompetency.

SYED wrote:They would need to create supply depots to support their ships, while manties won't go after the league it self, these fleet stations are clear immobile targets.

Mesa had wanted the league to break their fleet against other nations, so they would have encouraged negative aspects like corruption and incompetency.

Given the general level of corruption in the League and SLN, it wouldn't surprise me to find they have tow or three times as many supply depots as they really need, and none of them can match inventory to physical assets.

IIRC the whole point of Crandall's "Operation Winter Forage" was to test just that capacity. They have plenty of capacity. They just have zero experience in actual combat. Also, wasn't Thandi Palane shocked (as a former SL marine) by how large the ratio of tail to head was in logistics to combat units? And some speculation over how long it would take for some smart Logistics officer to figure it out and get someone in command to actually ... pay attention?

Weird Harold wrote:

saber964 wrote:Its about the stupidest way to haul anything.

About as stupid as sending an F-4G from Spangdahlem AB, Germany to Davis Montham AFB (the "Boneyard") for a nose-wheel strut (with a special shop-built adapter for the center-line bomb rack) because that was the only place one was available.

Doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Reminds me of the time I was TDY to Tyndall from Cannon in NM, and we got there just after a hurricane had gone through. It was cold, but nobody brought field jackets because Florida, y'know? On top of that, the sole came off one of my boots. So, they flew everyones field jackets, and a new pair of boots, to us in a pair of travel pods bolted onto the weapons stations of an F-111.