Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 61 guests

Manticore's foundational ethos

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Manticore's foundational ethos
Post by GabrialSagan   » Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:56 am

GabrialSagan
Lieutenant (Senior Grade)

Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:57 pm

saber964 wrote:This is speculation, but I think it was along the line of getting out before the shit hit the fan. We know that the Final War "officially" ended in 943 PD, but what we don't know is when the war started. What if it started shortly after the Manticore Colonists set out in 775 PD. I'm not saying, like in 776 PD but in a decade or two or three down the road. Maybe Roger Winton & CO saw the writing on the wall and decided to get out while the getting was good. The reason I am saying this is I think that the Final War ran hot and cold for years and probably decades before it got very hot and was finally 'declared' over. I'll bet that Earth was putting out bushfires for years or decades after the 'official' end of the war. It's much like all the precursor incidents prior to the start of WWII like the Marco Polo Bridge incident in July 37 or the Japanese invasion of Manchuria in 1931 FYI the bridge incident is considered the start of WWII by most historians.


I am sure that every colony was founded by people who wanted to "get out" and I would not be suprised if many of the colonists of that era were afraid of the coming war. But Manticore was one of many colony expeditions that were being mounted in those days, each one with a different ethos and goal. If Manticore was simply a run for the hills they probably would have had a broader recruitment from Asia and Africa; not just from Western Europe, North America and the Ukraine.
Top
Re: Manticore's foundational ethos
Post by cthia   » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:23 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 14951
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

This thread is assuming that every colony adopted a foundational ethos before leaving -- which is fine. Unless it isn't. What if most colonies shared a mutual sentiment as simple as "Let us get the hell off of this God-forsaken planet and go somewhere where we can live." Implying that the precious commodity of life itself was the driving force and thus 'to live' the irreducable 'atomic ethos.' Even before the final war, I can imagine that the writing was on the wall of what was "to come." What if a colony's foundational ethos was shaped by the product of their environment? An effect caused by the planet of their destiny?

Perhaps the Manticorans ended up in a star system that was not just conducive to travel (thus financial profit) but excellence through education because of the wonders of the universe arranged "just so." Unlike a Gryphon with harsh seasons and an unruly gravity. Perhaps the gravity of the situation in the Manticoran system inspired and drove their ethos. Truly, what would be the inspiration of colonists on two different worlds. One who looked up into the heavens, surrounded by pleasant dreams, and saw a beautiful heavens -- later discovering a network of wormholes; the other fighting for their lives on a very harsh planet? Necessity is the mother of invention. Desperation is its father.

Are we truly a product of our environment? Is Manticore but a product of theirs?

It is much easier to decree "We will become Manticorans!," then land on a forgiving planet in an amenable system that assists. Than to decree "We will be true followers of Christ," then to land in an amenable system yet on an unforgiving planet whose only assistance is of slowly killing you.

The immediate threat of death has a way of focusing one's thoughts in a very unifacial sort of way.

Finally, just perhaps there's that certain something in the Manticoran system that encourages life to stand up on its toes and savor the sun on its face, twirl and say "I like it here!"

It happened twice in that system, the treecats being the Columbuses.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: Manticore's foundational ethos
Post by dscott8   » Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:59 pm

dscott8
Commodore

Posts: 791
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:17 am

I have always seen Manticore as an extract of the best of British & European societal features. A hereditary aristocracy whose purpose is not to exploit lower classes, but to provide a part of government that is less influenced by partisan politics. An emphasis on education and social responsibility. A society with opportunities for upward mobility. Classical ethics applied in a practical manner. In short, a society designed by Stephen Fry.
Top
Re: Manticore's foundational ethos
Post by biochem   » Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:26 pm

biochem
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1372
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:06 pm
Location: USA

I visualized it as people who simply wanted a better life. Sure the Puritans and the get rich quick gold hunters got all the publicity, but thousands upon thousands of those who immigrated to the USA even at the beginning simply wanted a better life. The chance to have their own land, their own farm to become not rich but to become middle class yeoman farmers. I envision that the majority of Manticore's earlier settlers were like them.
Top
Re: Manticore's foundational ethos
Post by Weird Harold   » Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:20 am

Weird Harold
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 4478
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:25 pm
Location: "Lost Wages", NV

dscott8 wrote:I have always seen Manticore as an extract of the best of British & European societal features. A hereditary aristocracy whose purpose is not to exploit lower classes, but to provide a part of government that is less influenced by partisan politics.


But...

Manticore didn't start out as a hereditary aristocracy. That change came after the great plague and as preparation for inviting the second wave colonists, like Stephanie Harrington's parents.

IIRC, Manticore was a corporatocracy with a CEO and Board of Shareholders prior to the Great Plague; That would be Manticore's "founding principle."

ETA:
On Basilisk Station
Chapter Twenty
wrote:
It had taken more than a standard decade for the medics to defeat the plague, and it had killed over sixty percent of the colonists—almost ninety percent of those born on Old Earth—before they did. The survivors' harrowed ranks had been depleted well below the levels of assured survivability, and far too many of their essential specialists had been among the dead. Yet as if to compensate for the disaster of the plague, fate had given the colony the ability to bring in the new blood it needed.

The original colonists had sailed for Manticore before the invention of the Warshawski sail and gravity detectors had reduced the risks of hyper travel to a level passenger ships could accept. Not even the impeller drive had been available, and their voyage in cryo hibernation aboard the sublight colony ship Jason had taken over six hundred and forty T-years, but the mechanics of interstellar travel had been revolutionized during their centuries of sleep.

The new technology had meant new colonists could be recruited from the core worlds themselves in a reasonable time frame, and Roger Winton, president and CEO of the Manticore Colony, Ltd., had anticipated the changes. He had created the Manticore Colony Trust of Zurich before departure, investing every penny left to the shareholders after the expenses of purchasing the colony rights from the original surveyor and equipping their expedition. Few other colonial ventures had even considered such a thing, given the long years of travel which would lie between their new worlds and Sol, but Winton was a farsighted man, and six centuries of compound interest had left the colony with an enviable credit balance on Old Earth.

And so Winton and his surviving fellows had been able not only to recruit the reinforcements they needed but to pay those colonists' passage to their new and distant homes, if necessary. Yet, because they were concerned about retaining political control in the face of such an influx of newcomers, the survivors of the original expedition and their children had adopted a new constitution, converting their colony from one ruled by an elective board of directors into the Star Kingdom of Manticore under Roger I, first monarch of the House of Winton.

The Manticore Colony, Ltd.'s, initial shareholders had received vast tracts of land and/or mineral rights on the system's planets, in direct proportion to their original capital contributions. The new constitution transformed them into an hereditary aristocracy, but it wasn't a closed nobility, for even vaster tracts had remained unclaimed. The new colonists who could pay their own passage received the equivalent of its cost in land credits on their arrival, and those who could contribute more than the cost of passage were guaranteed the right to purchase additional land at just under half its "book" value. The opportunity to become nobles in their own right had drawn the interest of an extraordinarily high percentage of young, skilled, well-paid professionals: physicians, engineers, educators, chemists and physicists, botanists and biologists—exactly the sort of people a faltering colonial population required and all too few out-worlds could attract. They'd arrived to claim and expand their guaranteed credit, and many of those so-called "second shareholders" had become earls and even dukes in their own right.
.
.
.
Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
Top
Re: Manticore's foundational ethos
Post by Phalanx   » Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:06 am

Phalanx
Commander

Posts: 216
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:26 pm

Weird Harold wrote:
dscott8 wrote:I have always seen Manticore as an extract of the best of British & European societal features. A hereditary aristocracy whose purpose is not to exploit lower classes, but to provide a part of government that is less influenced by partisan politics.


But...

Manticore didn't start out as a hereditary aristocracy. That change came after the great plague and as preparation for inviting the second wave colonists, like Stephanie Harrington's parents.

IIRC, Manticore was a corporatocracy with a CEO and Board of Shareholders prior to the Great Plague; That would be Manticore's "founding principle."

ETA:
On Basilisk Station
Chapter Twenty
wrote:
It had taken more than a standard decade for the medics to defeat the plague, and it had killed over sixty percent of the colonists—almost ninety percent of those born on Old Earth—before they did. The survivors' harrowed ranks had been depleted well below the levels of assured survivability, and far too many of their essential specialists had been among the dead. Yet as if to compensate for the disaster of the plague, fate had given the colony the ability to bring in the new blood it needed.

The original colonists had sailed for Manticore before the invention of the Warshawski sail and gravity detectors had reduced the risks of hyper travel to a level passenger ships could accept. Not even the impeller drive had been available, and their voyage in cryo hibernation aboard the sublight colony ship Jason had taken over six hundred and forty T-years, but the mechanics of interstellar travel had been revolutionized during their centuries of sleep.

The new technology had meant new colonists could be recruited from the core worlds themselves in a reasonable time frame, and Roger Winton, president and CEO of the Manticore Colony, Ltd., had anticipated the changes. He had created the Manticore Colony Trust of Zurich before departure, investing every penny left to the shareholders after the expenses of purchasing the colony rights from the original surveyor and equipping their expedition. Few other colonial ventures had even considered such a thing, given the long years of travel which would lie between their new worlds and Sol, but Winton was a farsighted man, and six centuries of compound interest had left the colony with an enviable credit balance on Old Earth.

And so Winton and his surviving fellows had been able not only to recruit the reinforcements they needed but to pay those colonists' passage to their new and distant homes, if necessary. Yet, because they were concerned about retaining political control in the face of such an influx of newcomers, the survivors of the original expedition and their children had adopted a new constitution, converting their colony from one ruled by an elective board of directors into the Star Kingdom of Manticore under Roger I, first monarch of the House of Winton.

The Manticore Colony, Ltd.'s, initial shareholders had received vast tracts of land and/or mineral rights on the system's planets, in direct proportion to their original capital contributions. The new constitution transformed them into an hereditary aristocracy, but it wasn't a closed nobility, for even vaster tracts had remained unclaimed. The new colonists who could pay their own passage received the equivalent of its cost in land credits on their arrival, and those who could contribute more than the cost of passage were guaranteed the right to purchase additional land at just under half its "book" value. The opportunity to become nobles in their own right had drawn the interest of an extraordinarily high percentage of young, skilled, well-paid professionals: physicians, engineers, educators, chemists and physicists, botanists and biologists—exactly the sort of people a faltering colonial population required and all too few out-worlds could attract. They'd arrived to claim and expand their guaranteed credit, and many of those so-called "second shareholders" had become earls and even dukes in their own right.


But that is not exactly a founding principle.

We know that many colonies incorporated for legal reasons(Beowulf still has this structure to some extent).

I would say that Manticore's foundational ethos comes down to two words:Private Property

Now that seems either simplistic or confusing, but that may because most of us on this board live in Westernized countries(Europe,USA,etc.) that have strong traditions of private property.

Instead of being founded on a religious idea(Grayson) or a political idea(Haven), Manticore is defined by private property. The Manticore Colony Ltd is not Omni Consumer Products in Space(The evil company from Robocop), but a trust for the purpose of preserving the investments of the individual colonists.

Why does Manticore institute an aristocracy? To protect the liberties from an immigrant with different values. Without such protections, enough immigrants might win elections(or take power by force) to change Manticore culturally and politically.

Respect for private property is ingrained in the Manticoran ethos. Thanks to "By the Book" from Beginnings, we now know that the Manticoran colonization project was part of intellectual and economic expansion that followed the Economic Winter of 252 PD. Roger Winton left a Earth that was in a boom period(The Final War was not for another two centuries).

We notice that Winton appear to have management experience, but nothing is mentioned about how he got that experiment.It is generally assumed he was a corporate executive of some sort, and I would add that he likely has some background in the financial sector(Manticore Colony Ltd was founded in Zurich, Switzerland a city in our own time is one of the leading world financial centers).

So why leave Earth if everything is good?

The answer again is private property. The Manticore Colony Ltd was founded in 774 Post Diaspora, which by our reckoning is 2879 (2103+774). While the "Outbounders" of this first wave of colonization had a "Survivalist" ethos, the Cryo and early Hyper ships were different. These second and third waves of colonization were more "Go west young person" attitude. By this, property owners would have claimed all territory on earth and the solar system. This would mean no opportunities for homesteaders, but plenty of opportunities for profit from contracts to transfer property or improve it(and the things on that property like businesses).

Scarcity however, reared its ugly head and those seeking new economic opportunity realized(or re-realized) that they needed homesteading to create those opportunities.

So if Roger Winton had made money in some kind of business(Finance?), he attracted colonists seeking economic opportunity beyond the solar system.

As for colonists themselves, did some number crunching and discovered this:
5.75 Billion(amount MCL paid for Manticore)/50,000 colonists = 115,000 Eurodollars per colonist

115K average means that most of the colonists were likely middle class and put their life savings into the Manticore Colony Ltd(which transferred that into Manticore Colony Trust to manage whatever was left after operating expenses). Now this assumption is flawed, since much of Manticore Colony Ltd's money likely came from Roger's own assets and we have no numbers for the other expenses or how much money was initially invested(which would let us know how much remained to be invested into the Manticore Colony Trust).

But I suspect that no paupers were allowed on the trip given Manticore's Post-Plague immigration policy. If there were any poor, they were children or they possessed in-demand skills(Winton would have known that a new colony did not have the time or resources to set up a welfare state).

Also, the ONLY case of Civil War in Manticore's history(closest to it).

Gryphon.

The last of the 3 key worlds in the Manticore system to be colonized(Sphinx was originally settled as a "fallback position" during the Plague), Gryphon experienced the "Gryphon Uprising".

The cause?

A dispute over the meaning of...you guessed it...private property.

The Yeoman had settled on Crown Range, a portion of the planet that the Crown had designated for free use by anyone to encourage immigration. However, the Crown began to slowly phase out Crown Range once the population target was reached. The Crown than granted titles on the basis of improvements a homesteader had made to the land. Because they were mostly Second Shareholders, and thus had smaller initial plots, the Shareholders were interested in expanding their territorial claims(more property = more income).

From House of Steel:
"...Yeoman who had hoped to become independent ranchers,farmers, and miners claimed that the planetary nobility was using strong-arm tactics to force them off the land."



This led to two years of fighting between the "Squatters" and the "Children of Shareholders", in which the Crown had to intervene and finally resolve(they found that the Yeomen had indeed had been valid in their complaints).

This would also inform the change in foreign policy following Saganami's death. The Manticoran public realized that their economic security would be at risk if Manticoran trade was not constantly protected(the conflict between those who wish to protect manticore's trade and those who want to protect manticore's strategic interest is point of contention in Manticoran Military and Foreign policy from the discovery fo the wormhole onward).

Economic interest is what got Saganami involved against the Ranierian Pirates.The Ranierians harrassed shipping in the Pheonix, and Manticore decided to act.

However, it is a mischaracterization to think of Manticorans as merely concerned with profit(you are thinking of Erewhon :D ) and "Honorverse Ferengi".

Instead Manticcre is founded on a Lockean concept of Private Property. The Manticoran ethos is about more than accumulating stuff through any means necessary, but is about having piece of property that no one can take or touch without your permission.

It's not hoarding precious metals because they are shiny, but having something that is YOURS.

Consider that the Manticoran Constitution mandates that the income tax must be FLAT, and that it almost caused a constitutional crisis when the Manticoran government advocated switching to a progressive tax to pay for the war.

In the US, we had to amend the constitution to implement a progressive tax. Also keep in mind that the most notable recommendation for a progressive tax is from the Communist Manifesto(not exactly a guidebook for someone wanting to build a society that respects private property ;) ).

Manticore's war with the San Martin was started when the San Martino trashed their treaty and started to extort junction fees from Manticore. This was a threat to Manticoran trade and Manticoran property.

Notice that the structure of the Imperial Government is more focused on economics than politics on the local level.The Talbott Quadrant for example may choose the criteria by which their peers are chosen by only taxpayers may vote(taxpayers being those who have given up a portion of their property to the state).
_



____________________________________________________
There are no Mesan Agents under your bed
Top
Re: Manticore's foundational ethos
Post by Valen123456   » Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:38 pm

Valen123456
Lieutenant Commander

Posts: 103
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:27 am

Manticore, Grayson and many of the so called Verge worlds seem to have an early ethos of "getting away from earth" for various reasons and degrees. After all one needs a pretty solid reason to invest your life in settling so far from Earth (it was only later that wormhole junctions and hyperspace transport made the colonization progress much easier).

I would wager that many Shell worlds or ones intermediate to the Leagues core were more like corporate ventures that later expanded into full colonization and government building. Say a world is found that is rich in resources, some company maybe set up to help exploit/extract/transport said resources (before the days of the big tran-stellars who now probably do not tolerate newcomers much). This then leads to the snowball effect of providing for the people who come too work there, they put down roots given time, structures are set up to support them, which then need their own support structures and so on it goes, until some form of governance is needed. Either this comes from outside, or they set up their own and so slowly an independent entity is formed.

This was probably easier during the Leagues early days, and would have probably been why it did well at first before the "structures" it made began to congeal and then corrupt. Haven was a colonization cluster so i expect much the same sort of thing happened there, first starting from Haven itself, which then became daughter colonies and so on. I don't see this happening much in the series present though, except on some frontiers outside the league and other major systems control, since they would insist too much on having their investments returned.
Top
Re: Manticore's foundational ethos
Post by Vince   » Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:41 pm

Vince
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1574
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:43 pm

Valen123456 wrote:Manticore, Grayson and many of the so called Verge worlds seem to have an early ethos of "getting away from earth" for various reasons and degrees. After all one needs a pretty solid reason to invest your life in settling so far from Earth (it was only later that wormhole junctions and hyperspace transport made the colonization progress much easier).

I would wager that many Shell worlds or ones intermediate to the Leagues core were more like corporate ventures that later expanded into full colonization and government building. Say a world is found that is rich in resources, some company maybe set up to help exploit/extract/transport said resources (before the days of the big tran-stellars who now probably do not tolerate newcomers much). This then leads to the snowball effect of providing for the people who come too work there, they put down roots given time, structures are set up to support them, which then need their own support structures and so on it goes, until some form of governance is needed. Either this comes from outside, or they set up their own and so slowly an independent entity is formed.

This was probably easier during the Leagues early days, and would have probably been why it did well at first before the "structures" it made began to congeal and then corrupt. Haven was a colonization cluster so i expect much the same sort of thing happened there, first starting from Haven itself, which then became daughter colonies and so on. I don't see this happening much in the series present though, except on some frontiers outside the league and other major systems control, since they would insist too much on having their investments returned.

Until the impeller drive, the Warshawski detector, the Warshawski sail, the inertial compensator, and finally the counter-gravity generator (perfected in 1581 PD) finally made interstellar movement of people and resources (either finished or semi-finished goods or raw, semi- or fully refined materials) both safe and economically feasible, the idea of exploiting a resource rich star system for the benefit of shareholders who did not live in that star system was effectively not an economically viable business strategy in the Honorverse.

More Than Honor, The Universe of Honor Harrington, (1) Background (General) wrote:In 1502 pd, the first practical countergravity generator was developed by the Anderson Shipbuilding Corporation of New Glasgow. This had only limited applications for space travel (though it did mean cargoes could be lifted into orbit for negligible energy costs), but incalculable ones for planetary transport industries, rendering rail, road, and oceanic transport of bulk cargoes obsolete overnight. In 1581 pd, however, Dr. Ignatius Peterson, building on the work of the Anderson Corporation, Dr. Warshawski, and Dr. Radhakrishnan, mated countergrav technology with that of the impeller drive and created the first generator with sufficiently precise incremental control to produce an internal gravity field for a ship, thus permitting vessels with inertial compensators to be designed with a permanent up/down orientation. This proved a tremendous boon to long-haul starships, for it had always been difficult to design centrifugal spin sections into Warshawski Sail hyperships. Now that was no longer necessary. In addition, the decreased energy costs to transfer cargo in and out of a gravity well, coupled with the low energy and mass costs of the Warshawski sail itself and the greatly decreased risks of dimensional and grav shear, interstellar shipment of bulk cargo became a practical reality. In point of fact, on a per-ton basis, interstellar freight can be moved more cheaply than by any other form of transport in history.
Italics are the author's, boldface is my emphasis.

The sole exception prior to 1581 PD was for exploration firms, using hyperspace capable explorer ships (fusion powered reaction drives), to find these star systems and then sell the rights to them to a group of people who would then mount a colony expedition to the new star system.
-------------------------------------------------------------
History does not repeat itself so much as it echoes.
Top
Re: Manticore's foundational ethos
Post by cthia   » Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:12 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 14951
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

cthia wrote:This thread is assuming that every colony adopted a foundational ethos before leaving -- which is fine. Unless it isn't. What if most colonies shared a mutual sentiment as simple as "Let us get the hell off of this God-forsaken planet and go somewhere where we can live." Implying that the precious commodity of life itself was the driving force and thus 'to live' the irreducable 'atomic ethos.' Even before the final war, I can imagine that the writing was on the wall of what was "to come." What if a colony's foundational ethos was shaped by the product of their environment? An effect caused by the planet of their destiny?

Perhaps the Manticorans ended up in a star system that was not just conducive to travel (thus financial profit) but excellence through education because of the wonders of the universe arranged "just so." Unlike a Gryphon with harsh seasons and an unruly gravity. Perhaps the gravity of the situation in the Manticoran system inspired and drove their ethos. Truly, what would be the inspiration of colonists on two different worlds. One who looked up into the heavens, surrounded by pleasant dreams, and saw a beautiful heavens -- later discovering a network of wormholes; the other fighting for their lives on a very harsh planet? Necessity is the mother of invention. Desperation is its father.

Are we truly a product of our environment? Is Manticore but a product of theirs?

It is much easier to decree "We will become Manticorans!," then land on a forgiving planet in an amenable system that assists. Than to decree "We will be true followers of Christ," then to land in an amenable system yet on an unforgiving planet whose only assistance is of slowly killing you.

The immediate threat of death has a way of focusing one's thoughts in a very unifacial sort of way.

Finally, just perhaps there's that certain something in the Manticoran system that encourages life to stand up on its toes and savor the sun on its face, twirl and say "I like it here!"

It happened twice in that system, the treecats being the Columbuses.

I would also imagine that the "call of the wild" is at hand, the need to spread out and a sense of adventure is at its core. Was it ever given in textev what the final population had become on Old Earth exactly before the Great plague and the final wars began? How congested had Earth become? Moreover, what pressures had such an extreme population had on Earth's depleted resources?

There must have been an unshakeable appeal to settle a virgin planet with virgin resources aplenty. Any particular family of a colony - especially yeomen - stood to gain much from the great potential of a few tens of thousands of settlers per acreage of an entire planet. The Harringtons were of yeomen stock but I get the feeling that the Harrington property was HUGE! -- as a result of so much land left over to a handful of settlers even after Crown lands.

It seems to be a no brainer to leave Earth with one's balance with an almost definite guarantee (barring the threat of disease, death or the creek rising) that your personal investment will increase over several thousand fold. I imagine that procuring a ride on a colony ship became the ultimate gold rush with the 'new gold' becoming the virgin resources of an entire unsettled, untapped resource rich planet available only to a select few. The great gold rush of Earth in the 1800s was also somewhat limited by distance and available on hand resources to many. People sold everything they had to reach California. Even a century later slogans became "California or Bust" because in the 1930's drought and the Great Depression destroyed the hopes of many farmers. It was either seek new land West or perish.

Likewise, in the Honorverse I imagine it had become "Manticore or Bust" for many Manticoran colonists. With the consolation and motivation that the rush would be limited to the select few who were able to secure passage -- a virtual "cap" on claims.

Even though the "rush" was more of a snail's pace in travel time, the rush was to secure passage on the limited capacity ships.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: Manticore's foundational ethos
Post by JeffEngel   » Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:13 am

JeffEngel
Admiral

Posts: 2074
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:06 pm

cthia wrote:I would also imagine that the "call of the wild" is at hand, the need to spread out and a sense of adventure is at its core. Was it ever given in textev what the final population had become on Old Earth exactly before the Great plague and the final wars began? How congested had Earth become? Moreover, what pressures had such an extreme population had on Earth's depleted resources?
Judging from the story of pre-FTL Sol System in Beginnings, it was mightily congested. The extremes of wealth inequality on Old Earth in Honor's era probably aren't new at all, and the population density isn't either.

There must have been an unshakeable appeal to settle a virgin planet with virgin resources aplenty. Any particular family of a colony - especially yeomen - stood to gain much from the great potential of a few tens of thousands of settlers per acreage of an entire planet. The Harringtons were of yeomen stock but I get the feeling that the Harrington property was HUGE! -- as a result of so much land left over to a handful of settlers even after Crown lands.
They were not among the original colonists, but rather the post-Plague generation, coming from a variety of systems in a casual FTL culture hundreds of years later than the Sol System's cryo ship colonists who originally went to Manticore. Still, having a similar motivation even with that difference isn't impossible. Even centuries later, that kind of sense of space was a draw from Alison Harrington from Beowulf.

It seems to be a no brainer to leave Earth with one's balance with an almost definite guarantee (barring the threat of disease, death or the creek rising) that your personal investment will increase over several thousand fold. I imagine that procuring a ride on a colony ship became the ultimate gold rush with the 'new gold' becoming the virgin resources of an entire unsettled, untapped resource rich planet available only to a select few. The great gold rush of Earth in the 1800s was also somewhat limited by distance and available on hand resources to many. People sold everything they had to reach California. Even a century later slogans became "California or Bust" because in the 1930's drought and the Great Depression destroyed the hopes of many farmers. It was either seek new land West or perish.

Likewise, in the Honorverse I imagine it had become "Manticore or Bust" for many Manticoran colonists. With the consolation and motivation that the rush would be limited to the select few who were able to secure passage -- a virtual "cap" on claims.

Even though the "rush" was more of a snail's pace in travel time, the rush was to secure passage on the limited capacity ships.

It's still worth noting the differences by era: a berth on a cryo ship to a system that looks good with no one there; a berth on a (fairly slow) Warshawski sail ship that may not be able to use wormhole or grav waves for a settled but thinly populated system; or some room on a reasonably modern passenger ship to get from a crowded League world to some long-settled Verge world that nonetheless has 1/10th or less the population density of the one you are leaving.

But yeah - each time, it's still an investment of most or all of your resources to get away from a place with no chance of getting more resources to a place with the opportunities to secure so much more. It also meshes with the private property theme, and may well have been another factor in the establishment of the more specifically "thematic" colonies like Grayson, Montana, or Nuncio. It's not as though it'd've been the first time someone adopted a religion (or put on a Stetson) for material benefits.
Top

Return to Honorverse