Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 79 guests

Delayed CM activation

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Delayed CM activation
Post by Jonathan_S   » Sat May 30, 2015 8:53 pm

Jonathan_S
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 8792
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:01 pm
Location: Virginia, USA

Relax wrote:Proximity "soft kills" have to be within a hundred km or so even under RFC's nukes. Sphere ~100km in diameter.
Are you sure that's RFC's rules? Because that would be a detonation almost within the wedge -- even a BC's wedge stretches 150km beyond it's aft hammerhead. (Probably not actually within the wedge because the missile pods are aft of it; but still within a couple hundred km of the ship's hull)

That's virtually an impossibly deep penetration into the ship's defensive envelope. We're told that inside 30,000 km the hit percentages from PDLC increase very very quickly.

If you actually had to get a warhead that close then soft-kill should be a pretty rare event, rather than the normal expected outcome of the first incoming salvo. But that salvo is going to be detonated 30,000 (now 50,000) km from the ship preciously because its so unlikely to get warheads in closer.
Top
Re: Delayed CM activation
Post by kzt   » Sat May 30, 2015 9:07 pm

kzt
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 11360
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:18 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM

You have to get really damn close to have a nuke do anything to something in deep space. But there are no physics behind the soft kills, it's all plot.

It's like the triple ripple. Exactly how does this impact the grav sensors on the missiles? And if it works so well, how come ships don't throw out a continuous stream of giant nukes as a point defense tactic during the 5 seconds when a missile wave is doing terminal target acquisition? Well, it doesn't work, it's all plot.
Top
Re: Delayed CM activation
Post by Relax   » Sat May 30, 2015 9:42 pm

Relax
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 3214
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:18 pm

I have always pictured "soft kills" as being a standard nuke that is projected forward, just as all nukes are on Honorverse missiles, just that there are no laser rods "in-the-way" in case of the giant dirty nukes.

This gets them further away from the ship.

Or conversely, the pods range MUCH further from the ships than either of us are thinking.

And yes, I know, in real-life physics "soft-kills" are complete BS unless very close.
_________
Tally Ho!
Relax
Top
Re: Delayed CM activation
Post by Carl   » Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:14 pm

Carl
Lieutenant (Senior Grade)

Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:09 am

Of course they're going to use grav effects to extend soft kill ranges.

Also ships in honorverse are virtually always accelerating or decelerating. Even in the flight time of a single stage low power setting missiles with a ship going 500 gravities the pods will fall a good 81,000 Km behind. And that's assuming they come off the rails at relative zero.
Top
Re: Delayed CM activation
Post by Somtaaw   » Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:39 pm

Somtaaw
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1203
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:36 am
Location: Canada

Carl wrote:Of course they're going to use grav effects to extend soft kill ranges.

Also ships in honorverse are virtually always accelerating or decelerating. Even in the flight time of a single stage low power setting missiles with a ship going 500 gravities the pods will fall a good 81,000 Km behind. And that's assuming they come off the rails at relative zero.


Inertial compensator would give them the same acceleration as the ship, until it falls outside of the wedge.... or that's how I think its supposed to work. By that time, either the ship (pre-podnought) or the pod (post-podnought) would have activated tractor beam and tumbles along with the ship.
Top
Re: Delayed CM activation
Post by kzt   » Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:00 pm

kzt
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 11360
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:18 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Compensator volume is much smaller than the wedge volume IIRC.
Top
Re: Delayed CM activation
Post by Somtaaw   » Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:42 pm

Somtaaw
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1203
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:36 am
Location: Canada

I thought compensators were almost as large as the wedge. Thats why the PNS Saladin in HotQ was able to play tugboat with Masadan LACs.

Or when Honor's shuttle during uhm, Silesia when she did her little double- & triple-cross against Warnecke. They felt g-forces, but only as a direct result of the shuttles actions to clear the factory ship's wedge.


Or I'm just totally interpreting those, and the occasion other reference to jettisoning anything in relation to ships under impeller wedge.
Top
Re: Delayed CM activation
Post by Carl   » Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:15 am

Carl
Lieutenant (Senior Grade)

Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:09 am

I think it's the case that the compensator extends outside the ship, but not the full extent of the wedge making it a bit of both.

Also we know from First Manticore that havanite SD(P)'s don;t have anywhere near enough tractors to hold every pod deployed in some of their bigger salvo's, and prior to tractors on manticore's own pods the same would be true. Even then missle wedge on wedge interference requires a certain minimum separation and the pods HAVE to fall out of the wedge before they fire for the sidewalls not to smoosh the outbounds.

All of those make hanging onto them unlikely. In fact i'd go so far as to say that given the realities of a rail system the separation between pod launches off rails represents the minimum time needed for off the rail velocity to create missle wedge interference separation, though what that velocity is, is unknown.

As an aside, with even basic modern shaped charge nuke designs, (or what's declassified about them), i'd argue 100km is actually on the short side.
Top
Re: Delayed CM activation
Post by jchilds   » Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:32 am

jchilds
Captain of the List

Posts: 722
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:09 am
Location: Ottawa, ON Canada

Somtaaw wrote:I thought compensators were almost as large as the wedge. Thats why the PNS Saladin in HotQ was able to play tugboat with Masadan LACs.

Or when Honor's shuttle during uhm, Silesia when she did her little double- & triple-cross against Warnecke. They felt g-forces, but only as a direct result of the shuttles actions to clear the factory ship's wedge.


Or I'm just totally interpreting those, and the occasion other reference to jettisoning anything in relation to ships under impeller wedge.


IIRC, the LACs had to be towed unmanned because of a lack of a compensator field. Also, something came loose in one of the towed LACs and more or less left it unusable.
Top
Re: Delayed CM activation
Post by Theemile   » Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:43 pm

Theemile
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5241
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:50 pm
Location: All over the Place - Now Serving Dublin, OH

jchilds wrote:
Somtaaw wrote:I thought compensators were almost as large as the wedge. Thats why the PNS Saladin in HotQ was able to play tugboat with Masadan LACs.

Or when Honor's shuttle during uhm, Silesia when she did her little double- & triple-cross against Warnecke. They felt g-forces, but only as a direct result of the shuttles actions to clear the factory ship's wedge.


Or I'm just totally interpreting those, and the occasion other reference to jettisoning anything in relation to ships under impeller wedge.


IIRC, the LACs had to be towed unmanned because of a lack of a compensator field. Also, something came loose in one of the towed LACs and more or less left it unusable.


Somtaaw, you're confusing the hyperfield with the compensator. The Saladin was able to extend it's hyperfield far enough to encapsulate the lacs and drag them into hyper, but they were outside the compensator field which only extends a couple of 10s of meters from the hull as best.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
Top

Return to Honorverse