2nd Battle of Manticore questions

cthia wrote:

n7axw wrote:They certainly had idrntified the flag and excuded it from targeting although it might have been desyroyed anyway. A visit with the ship's captain could have been enlightening.

I have wondered about this myself.

Don

Wasn't aware that the flagship had been identified. I suppose triangulation of the signal via the Hermes buoys would have yielded fruit, if both legs of the signal could have been passed through Hermes.

But anyways, what could Filareta possibly know? Except for more Manty bashing.

cthia wrote:

n7axw wrote:They certainly had idrntified the flag and excuded it from targeting although it might have been desyroyed anyway. A visit with the ship's captain could have been enlightening.

I have wondered about this myself.

Don

Wasn't aware that the flagship had been identified. I suppose triangulation of the signal via the Hermes buoys would have yielded fruit, if both legs of the signal could have been passed through Hermes.

But anyways, what could Filareta possibly know? Except for more Manty bashing.

cthia wrote:Wasn't aware that the flagship had been identified. I suppose triangulation of the signal via the Hermes buoys would have yielded fruit, if both legs of the signal could have been passed through Hermes.

But anyways, what could Filareta possibly know? Except for more Manty bashing.

SWM wrote:

cthia wrote:Wasn't aware that the flagship had been identified. I suppose triangulation of the signal via the Hermes buoys would have yielded fruit, if both legs of the signal could have been passed through Hermes.

But anyways, what could Filareta possibly know? Except for more Manty bashing.

Filareta's flagship was definitely identified, because Honor sent her communication specifically to his ship by laser. No one else heard the message.

cthia wrote:Wasn't aware that the flagship had been identified. I suppose triangulation of the signal via the Hermes buoys would have yielded fruit, if both legs of the signal could have been passed through Hermes.

But anyways, what could Filareta possibly know? Except for more Manty bashing.

SWM wrote:Filareta's flagship was definitely identified, because Honor sent her communication specifically to his ship by laser. No one else heard the message.

cthia wrote:Ah, yes. Now I remember.

Thanks.

Although, the how still remains, as his signature had never been encountered, as I'm aware. Triangulation is my best guess.

JohnRoth wrote:

cthia wrote:Wasn't aware that the flagship had been identified. I suppose triangulation of the signal via the Hermes buoys would have yielded fruit, if both legs of the signal could have been passed through Hermes.

But anyways, what could Filareta possibly know? Except for more Manty bashing.

SWM wrote:Filareta's flagship was definitely identified, because Honor sent her communication specifically to his ship by laser. No one else heard the message.

cthia wrote:Ah, yes. Now I remember.

Thanks.

Although, the how still remains, as his signature had never been encountered, as I'm aware. Triangulation is my best guess.

A wall of battle is shaped more or less like a plate [1] or a pancake, with the flat side toward the threat axis, so that you get maximum anti-missile coverage. It's not very deep, in other words. As long as you've got really good angular resolution, you can spot which ship a transmission is coming from - especially if you're doing it with close-in sensor platforms.

Triangulation wouldn't help significantly; the sensor platforms would need the same angular resolution with or without triangulation.

[1] I am trying to resist calling it a flying saucer. Oh, well, I'll just take Mark Twain's comment about resisting temptation to heart.

JohnRoth wrote:

cthia wrote:Wasn't aware that the flagship had been identified. I suppose triangulation of the signal via the Hermes buoys would have yielded fruit, if both legs of the signal could have been passed through Hermes.

But anyways, what could Filareta possibly know? Except for more Manty bashing.

SWM wrote:Filareta's flagship was definitely identified, because Honor sent her communication specifically to his ship by laser. No one else heard the message.

cthia wrote:Ah, yes. Now I remember.

Thanks.

Although, the how still remains, as his signature had never been encountered, as I'm aware. Triangulation is my best guess.

A wall of battle is shaped more or less like a plate [1] or a pancake, with the flat side toward the threat axis, so that you get maximum anti-missile coverage. It's not very deep, in other words. As long as you've got really good angular resolution, you can spot which ship a transmission is coming from - especially if you're doing it with close-in sensor platforms.

Triangulation wouldn't help significantly; the sensor platforms would need the same angular resolution with or without triangulation.

[1] I am trying to resist calling it a flying saucer. Oh, well, I'll just take Mark Twain's comment about resisting temptation to heart.

looksbeforeheleaps wrote:The RMN routinely operates its latest-generation RDs close enough to read ships' names of their hulls. Given all the Intel they had on Fila retail and his fleet, I wouldn't be surprised if the name of his flagship was included.

email from niece wrote:Hi Uncle,
Guess what?! You guessed! We are going back to Stonehenge for pi day!!! Mother is learning to bribe me. I had to give up this summer's trip to Geneva. But she doesn't know that I've been invited to tag along with Aunt Beatrice. Ha! But she's getting better, so I'm going to have to alter my tactics. Mums the word.(literally)

Hey, you didn't respond to your mobile last night. So you were either asleep or in your lab. I checked on the forum and you hadn't posted since earlier in the night so I surmised you were asleep. I saw an interesting post and I'm surprised at you. You must be getting old Uncle. Of course Honor would have identified Filareta's ship through simple interferometry. An entire essay on it can be found in Volume IV of my journal during the time I got my first radio telescope to build. Remember that kit we shipped from Germany?

Here is a summary. Ship probes will represent Earth bound telescopes. I'm sure you will want to post it, so I'll try and accommodate forum format, since physics symbols still fail to display properly.

Interferometry

R = lambda/D

Where the Resolution is equal to the source we are trying to observe(lambda) over the diameter of the telescope(D)

It is used to determine the diameter of the telescope we need to build to achieve a particular resolution. However, building larger and larger diameter telescopes is rather expensive. Fortunately, that problem can be circumvented by using several antennas strategically placed. Strategically, meaning their distance from each other is not haphazard, because the equation R = lambda/D modifies into lambda/B. Where B represents the largest separation between any two telescopes. The separation acts as the effective diameter of the array.

Let's say that we have two antennas(probes) i and j separated by a distance B. Pointing the probes at the source(ships) whose distance we already know we will receive the signal at different times, directly related to the distance from each ship. The probe closest to the source will receive the signal first. The difference in the time of the signal received by the probe farther away is called the geometric delay.(tau) We know that the velocity of our waves is the speed of light.

In interferometry, we need to determine the distance to the source from each telescope. Whereas that is accomplished by tau = b dot s/c.

b dot s is simply the unit vector. However, this stage can be skipped because in the Honorverse we already know the distance to each ship.

[huge snip]

This is all very simple Uncle. It can be found in Volume IV of my journal, when I received my first telescope.

I so enjoyed riding Glue Factory Uncle. I think he missed me terribly. There were tears in his eyes. I loathe certain aspects of the winter.

See ya,
Tierney

cthia wrote:Remember, even with the Havenites, Honor and other officers would hazard a guess as to the location of an SLN flagship because they knew that there MO was to place its flag on an SD "in the middle" of the formation. It always reminded me of playing Stratego and growing accustomed to where one likes to place their flag. Honor, as far as I know, was the only officer who tended to like to wrap her bacon in a less than optimum package. Which none of her officers liked.

Relax wrote:So, you got schooled in basic physics and geometry. Welcome back to high school. How many years has it been?