Breaking the "sprawl"

Hasek wrote:there's a sphere around each terminus where its faster to go thru the junction then direct. This is what make the penetration so large. depending on where your going that sphere could be hundreds of LY in diameter

It's not really a matter of spheres, because if it's a shorter distance to a destination through the wormhole than going direct, there's no system farther out in that direction for which that would not also be true.

For instance, if you're going from Beowulf to a system on the other side of Manticore, use the wormhole to skip over the first 475 ltyr. On this side of Manticore, if you're going to a system 250 ltyr in that direction, use the wormhole and drive 225 ltyr back. But if you're going to a system only 200 ltyr in that direction, go straight there.

It's not quite that simple, because there is a substantial charge to use the WH.

kzt wrote:It's not quite that simple, because there is a substantial charge to use the WH.

Substantial yes, until you likely compare it to the hallowed OFS rake off on everything a planetary system produces, right? I'd think that total Manticoran control of the wormholes including deciding about fees charged --that don't include that chunk of graft might be termed something like a magnitude level tax break.

kzt wrote:It's not quite that simple, because there is a substantial charge to use the WH.

Well, the question was about faster, not cheaper. For that, yeah, it's worth going somewhat further through hyperspace. Ten ltyr? Fifty, a hundred?

Actually, given the way 'empire building' within bureaucracies occurs, combined with 'families/patronage' within the SL it is very probably that certain individuals are already defacto rules of their own multi-system empires, and they are just keeping Earth sweet. As soon, as they are given the chance, they could very easily move to being official power blocks.

And, like Earth today, the GA will leave them be because they have other issues to deal with even if they are brutal regimes.

Bill Woods wrote:

Hasek wrote:there's a sphere around each terminus where its faster to go thru the junction then direct. This is what make the penetration so large. depending on where your going that sphere could be hundreds of LY in diameter

It's not really a matter of spheres, because if it's a shorter distance to a destination through the wormhole than going direct, there's no system farther out in that direction for which that would not also be true.

For instance, if you're going from Beowulf to a system on the other side of Manticore, use the wormhole to skip over the first 475 ltyr. On this side of Manticore, if you're going to a system 250 ltyr in that direction, use the wormhole and drive 225 ltyr back. But if you're going to a system only 200 ltyr in that direction, go straight there.

Right. It's more that there's a cone (or maybe a hemispherical cone) pointed towards the other end of the wormhole. If you're starting from "beyond" terminus A and heading "beyond" terminus B then it doesn't matter how long the trip is, the wormhole always makes it shorter.

But if you're starting far enough off to a side, or from a point between the two termini, the detour (or backtracking) to use the wormhole might be at least as long as the distance saved by using it.


Although the actual economic cut-off distance is likely to be one on side or the other of the pure travel distance line; because of other factors. A few off the top of my head:
* wormhole fees might make it worth taking slightly longer travel time to skip them
* conversely ability to pick-up or drop off cargo at terminus warehouses for transhipment might make it worth using the wormhole even if the total distance is longer.
* or if there are a couple decent, but not great, trade stops on the long route that again might encourage you to skip the wormhole as they might more than cover your costs.

Jonathan_S wrote:Right. It's more that there's a cone (or maybe a hemispherical cone) pointed towards the other end of the wormhole. If you're starting from "beyond" terminus A and heading "beyond" terminus B then it doesn't matter how long the trip is, the wormhole always makes it shorter.

But if you're starting far enough off to a side, or from a point between the two termini, the detour (or backtracking) to use the wormhole might be at least as long as the distance saved by using it.


Although the actual economic cut-off distance is likely to be one on side or the other of the pure travel distance line; because of other factors. A few off the top of my head:
* wormhole fees might make it worth taking slightly longer travel time to skip them
* conversely ability to pick-up or drop off cargo at terminus warehouses for transhipment might make it worth using the wormhole even if the total distance is longer.
* or if there are a couple decent, but not great, trade stops on the long route that again might encourage you to skip the wormhole as they might more than cover your costs.

Don't forget the other factor which skews these calculations - grav waves. A convenient grav wave might make it more convenient to jump to Manticore through the wormhole and come back towards Beowulf 300 light years IF the correct grav wave exists and goes the right direction with enough power. On the other hand - interfering Grav waves going the wrong direction may slow a leg of a journey, making the 100 ly journey from the far end of a wormhole slower than the 375 ly direct route. (In both cases an unusual, almost gross exageration of a case used to emphasize the point.)

All in all, when going a great distance, the direct route appears not to always be the shortest.

Theemile wrote:
Don't forget the other factor which skews these calculations - grav waves. A convenient grav wave might make it more convenient to jump to Manticore through the wormhole and come back towards Beowulf 300 light years IF the correct grav wave exists and goes the right direction with enough power. On the other hand - interfering Grav waves going the wrong direction may slow a leg of a journey, making the 100 ly journey from the far end of a wormhole slower than the 375 ly direct route. (In both cases an unusual, almost gross exageration of a case used to emphasize the point.)

All in all, when going a great distance, the direct route appears not to always be the shortest.

Good point. A grav wave (or conversely a poorly placed rift) might significantly tilt the economic balance point closer, or farther, from the wormhole -- depending on how much easier (or harder) it make it to use vs avoid the wormhole.

Remember that whole discussion about wormholes showing up in Lacoon II that we didn't know about before and all that open space on the maps to the nominal South and at least SE and SW on the maps...and then there is the time when Talbott Quadrant showed up.

There is also that we have 2D maps of 3D areas- that part of human occupied space we have been shown. How many areas -in all directions of that sphere- could be filled with batches of systems in relative proximity to each other like Talbott, Silesia, the IAE, Maya, Haven's extended group? All the directions including deeper and nearer from our flat frame of reference.

We don't really know what is already there or what may be going to be added as it is plot driven. Not actually sure (since they aren't displayed) where Nuncio is in relation except it is X light years from Y and Z and that Idaho is A from Manticore. And just exactly why there happend to be a SQUADRON of FF BCs available at the call of the OFS Governor (must be at least several systems being delt with by him) who sent them with the freighter to force the access to the Nuncio terminus?

Dam big place. Like the suburbs around New York (sort of bad example- there is an ocean along a bunch of that area except that it was/is the river & ocean combination that made the location)- or Chicago and extending into Indiana to the SE.
So there are a lot of systems and probably a fair number of wormholes that we have not seen or not mentioned because they are not currently necessary in the plotline.

Brigade XO wrote: We don't really know what is already there or what may be going to be added as it is plot driven. Not actually sure (since they aren't displayed) where Nuncio is in relation except it is X light years from Y and Z and that Idaho is A from Manticore. And just exactly why there happend to be a SQUADRON of FF BCs available at the call of the OFS Governor (must be at least several systems being delt with by him) who sent them with the freighter to force the access to the Nuncio terminus?

A squadron of BCs for an OFS sector seems normal enough. Madras sector had at least a division. Whatever sector Saltash is in had a squadron, though only a division was available for deployment. Maya has whatever it has; the force deployed to defend Torch doesn't seem to have raised concerns.