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are fairings used in this series?

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Re: are fairings used in this series?
Post by Weird Harold   » Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:49 am

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SharkHunter wrote:Possibly a connection?


Nah, shrouds over the sensors aren't the same things.

Fairings are the panels and such that Maxqq removed to show the internal workings of missiles on his DeviantArt page (as linked above.) There is no functional reason for those fairings once the missile is launched. They may have some utility in a ballistic phase, but they exist on CMs and single stage missiles that aren't capable of extended ballistic phases that would require physical shielding from particle erosion. Under power, Missiles have a radiation/particle shield as part of their drives.

That leaves "before launch" as the time the fairings might have some functional purpose besides esthetics.
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Re: are fairings used in this series?
Post by crewdude48   » Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:31 am

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Fairings; an external metal or plastic structure added to increase streamlining and reduce drag, especially on a high-performance car, motorcycle, boat, or aircraft.

No, a missile does not have fairings. It does however have a skin around the outside. This skin helps with loading and firing, makes it a bit safer in storage, and there is no reason to NOT have it. Yah, sure they add some mass to the missile, but it is an impeller drive missile, where mass is more or less a non-factor.
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Re: are fairings used in this series?
Post by JeffEngel   » Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:05 am

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Weird Harold wrote:
SharkHunter wrote:Possibly a connection?


Nah, shrouds over the sensors aren't the same things.

Fairings are the panels and such that Maxqq removed to show the internal workings of missiles on his DeviantArt page (as linked above.) There is no functional reason for those fairings once the missile is launched. They may have some utility in a ballistic phase, but they exist on CMs and single stage missiles that aren't capable of extended ballistic phases that would require physical shielding from particle erosion. Under power, Missiles have a radiation/particle shield as part of their drives.

That leaves "before launch" as the time the fairings might have some functional purpose besides esthetics.

That does skip a phase though: in between launching and bringing up their own wedges. It's a very, very brief phase, but it's also a highly energetic one.
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Re: are fairings used in this series?
Post by captinjoehenry   » Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:26 am

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So far the argument that the fairing/covers are there primarily for weapon handling makes the most sense. If that is the case I would assume that the fairings/covers are probably jetisoned once the missile gets far enough from the launching ship as if it needs some sort of sensor cover it would be cheapest to use a wipple shield for shielding while the missile is in a balistic phase of flight.
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Re: are fairings used in this series?
Post by SWM   » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:15 am

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captinjoehenry wrote:So far the argument that the fairing/covers are there primarily for weapon handling makes the most sense. If that is the case I would assume that the fairings/covers are probably jetisoned once the missile gets far enough from the launching ship as if it needs some sort of sensor cover it would be cheapest to use a wipple shield for shielding while the missile is in a balistic phase of flight.

If the fairings don't obstruct the sensors, why would there be any reason to jettison them?
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Re: are fairings used in this series?
Post by MaxxQ   » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:32 am

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captinjoehenry wrote:So far the argument that the fairing/covers are there primarily for weapon handling makes the most sense. If that is the case I would assume that the fairings/covers are probably jetisoned once the missile gets far enough from the launching ship as if it needs some sort of sensor cover it would be cheapest to use a wipple shield for shielding while the missile is in a balistic phase of flight.


No. Fairings aren't jettisoned until the few seconds before release of the laserheads, which itself is only a few seconds (maybe less) before detonation of the warhead.

http://youtu.be/byq68MjOlJU

Keep in mind, this is a very old video I did several years ago, and looks like crap, not to mention, the wedge is very much *not* in scale (nor at the right angle). The timing is not correct either. Still, it gives you the general idea.

Finally, people expect to see missiles that look like what they expect missiles to look like. In the end, it all comes down to aesthetics, and making things look somewhat recognizable. One can argue all day long that missiles (in space) don't have to be cylindrical, or have a skin, or not have fairings, but until people can get past their prejudices over how things *could* look, we have missiles that look like any other missile we can think of.

It's science fiction. It's David's universe. He has approved this design. It's the design we go with.

Discuss away, but don't expect changes. :mrgreen:
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Re: are fairings used in this series?
Post by Jonathan_S   » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:33 am

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MaxxQ wrote:I think that several plausible reasons for having a skin-covered missile and fairings have been mentioned here already - protection from particle erosion, shape required for impeller drive, handling protection, and so on.

But it could also be for a reason as simple as: because it's how missiles have always been done, even back in the Old Earth days of air-breathing jet fighters and ICBMs.

TBH, I'm going with the handling protection myself, as these things mass quite a few tons, and the handling equipment can probably get a bit rough, especially when at max rate of fire. Note that in the naked images of the missiles, there's nothing for the loading clamps to attach to, and even if you put mounting points on a nude missile, they would be bulkier than necessary, whereas with a thick skin around everything, loading stresses would be distributed over a greater area.

Of course, there's also the possibility of another "Silver Spanner" klutz maintenance dude that might drop something into the innards - goodness knows I saw enough of that when I was loading bombs on F-111s in the Air Force... even did it myself once or twice.

Could also be for protection from battle damage while they're still in the magazine or loading queues.

With respect to your first couple points I'm thinking of the part of the battle in On Basilisk Station where the transfer tubes were taken out and the damage control team was using counter grav collars and drag wires to manually move missiles from a magazine to the loading tube for the remaining chase launcher.

I'd think especially in that kind of (unusual) situation that having a 'skinless' missile would make it much harder (could catch on all kinds of things in the passageway) and much more likely to get the internal components damaged.
And on a 70+ ton missile a solid skin just isn't going to add all that much mass, or cost.

And with effectively no performance impact from increased mass why not put protective skin panels on your missiles?
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Re: are fairings used in this series?
Post by MaxxQ   » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:41 am

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Jonathan_S wrote:
MaxxQ wrote:I think that several plausible reasons for having a skin-covered missile and fairings have been mentioned here already - protection from particle erosion, shape required for impeller drive, handling protection, and so on.

But it could also be for a reason as simple as: because it's how missiles have always been done, even back in the Old Earth days of air-breathing jet fighters and ICBMs.

TBH, I'm going with the handling protection myself, as these things mass quite a few tons, and the handling equipment can probably get a bit rough, especially when at max rate of fire. Note that in the naked images of the missiles, there's nothing for the loading clamps to attach to, and even if you put mounting points on a nude missile, they would be bulkier than necessary, whereas with a thick skin around everything, loading stresses would be distributed over a greater area.

Of course, there's also the possibility of another "Silver Spanner" klutz maintenance dude that might drop something into the innards - goodness knows I saw enough of that when I was loading bombs on F-111s in the Air Force... even did it myself once or twice.

Could also be for protection from battle damage while they're still in the magazine or loading queues.

With respect to your first couple points I'm thinking of the part of the battle in On Basilisk Station where the transfer tubes were taken out and the damage control team was using counter grav collars and drag wires to manually move missiles from a magazine to the loading tube for the remaining chase launcher.

I'd think especially in that kind of (unusual) situation that having a 'skinless' missile would make it much harder (could catch on all kinds of things in the passageway) and much more likely to get the internal components damaged.
And on a 70+ ton missile a solid skin just isn't going to add all that much mass, or cost.

And with effectively no performance impact from increased mass why not put protective skin panels on your missiles?


Agreed. There's no real reason to *not* put it there, except to make it look different enough to be "cool".
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Re: are fairings used in this series?
Post by Joat42   » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:58 am

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I would expect missiles to have some kind of covers that can handle the energetic environment they head into since they are filled with advanced circuitry and particle shielding may not be enough when you have laserheads going off left and right.

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Re: are fairings used in this series?
Post by captinjoehenry   » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:10 am

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Well if mass has no real impact on impeller driven ships then I also see no real reason not to have missile with fairings / covers it is just I am so used to wanting to remove as much mass as possible from space ships because every gram counts for reaction powered ships so I guess if impeller powered vessels do not care about mass then impeller ships should really use the best equipment with no concern for mass.
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