Eridiani edict

runsforcelery wrote:Unless you have an Uttu-class planetoid with an Enchanch drive, of course . . . .

[walks away, hands in pocket, whistling]

I think you need a nap. You're getting your own universes mixed up

Weird Harold wrote:

Zakharra wrote: I just had a possibly very frightening thought, what if someone did that, but to a star ...

You're channeling Lord Skimper, aren't you?

Stars are big and it is highly unlikely than mankind can ever generate the kinds of force that a star would even notice.

Oh, I wasn't thinking it would destroy the star. I know there's nothing in the Honorverse capable of doing that, but if a wedge hitting a planet at .8C will wreck the planet (that was the implication I got), then might one such ship possibly cause a large (or bigger) solar flare? After all the ship doesn't need to survive to do damage. The edges are supposed to be how many thousands of gravities of force?

I know the idea is likely not doable, the ship/impellers/nodes might burn up before it gets close enough, they might not be powerful enough, whatever, but the idea seems plausible on the theoretical level, if not yet on the practical.

Zakharra wrote: Oh, I wasn't thinking it would destroy the star. I know there's nothing in the Honorverse capable of doing that, but if a wedge hitting a planet at .8C will wreck the planet (that was the implication I got), then might one such ship possibly cause a large (or bigger) solar flare? After all the ship doesn't need to survive to do damage. The edges are supposed to be how many thousands of gravities of force?

I know the idea is likely not doable, the ship/impellers/nodes might burn up before it gets close enough, they might not be powerful enough, whatever, but the idea seems plausible on the theoretical level, if not yet on the practical.

No, it would not. As stated before, stars are big. Very big. Really, really, really big.

SWM wrote:

Zakharra wrote: Oh, I wasn't thinking it would destroy the star. I know there's nothing in the Honorverse capable of doing that, but if a wedge hitting a planet at .8C will wreck the planet (that was the implication I got), then might one such ship possibly cause a large (or bigger) solar flare? After all the ship doesn't need to survive to do damage. The edges are supposed to be how many thousands of gravities of force?

I know the idea is likely not doable, the ship/impellers/nodes might burn up before it gets close enough, they might not be powerful enough, whatever, but the idea seems plausible on the theoretical level, if not yet on the practical.

No, it would not. As stated before, stars are big. Very big. Really, really, really big.

Heh. Alright. I'll go with theoretically possible (just theoretically), but technologically impossible/VERY implausible for the next few hundred years at least, at this time, and by the time they do make tech capable of doing that, there is likely going to be several other easier ways to wreck planets/star systems.

I guarantee you that a star will notice 10 million tons impacting at .9 Cee.

KE is on the order of 1eex26 Joules.

This is about one second worth of stellar energy production.

I would expect the shockwave of the wedge impacting the photosphere to generate enough compression to initiate fusion reactions on a massive scale.

Total energy yield might be 1eex30 Joules.

Weird Harold wrote:

Zakharra wrote: I just had a possibly very frightening thought, what if someone did that, but to a star ...

You're channeling Lord Skimper, aren't you?

Stars are big and it is highly unlikely than mankind can ever generate the kinds of force that a star would even notice.

drothgery wrote:

phillies wrote:As I have said before, but someone else gets to listen, sooner or later it will occur to the ISLN Invincible Solarian League Navy and its bosses that the Eridani Edict is not much of a threat against people with whom you are already at war.

I think RFC has suggested the SLN would likely mutiny if ordered to commit EE violations, and if the SLN actually did commit EE violations it would trigger mass secession movements, most of which would form an alliance to go to war with the League.

My issue was considerably more that it will eventually occur to the ISLN that the star barbarians with whom it is at war are under no constraint that would discourage them from launching systematic EE attacks against the League.

Said otherwise "Okay, now explain to me again why *Manticore* is not going to solve the core world industrial capacity problem by launching systematic EE violations against the entire League?"

From the perspective of the ISLN, there as absolutely, positively no conceivable reason why Manticore will not do this. After all, they are barbarians. Therefore, they have no morals. They know they *can* do this, because the ISLN has no defenses. Systematic EE violation lets them win. Therefore, they will do it.

Weird Harold wrote:

Zakharra wrote: I just had a possibly very frightening thought, what if someone did that, but to a star ...

You're channeling Lord Skimper, aren't you?

Stars are big and it is highly unlikely than mankind can ever generate the kinds of force that a star would even notice.

namelessfly wrote:I guarantee you that a star will notice 10 million tons impacting at .9 Cee.

KE is on the order of 1eex26 Joules.

This is about one second worth of stellar energy production.

I would expect the shockwave of the wedge impacting the photosphere to generate enough compression to initiate fusion reactions on a massive scale.

Total energy yield might be 1eex30 Joules.

My last post vanished. Try again.

It takes a new photon a million years to escape from the sun. It travels at the speed of light, but not in a straight line. 10^4 s power output is insignificant.

The core of the sun is a bit warm. In the words of the heroine of my next novel The Girl Who Saved the World (yes, I write YA. I'll even finish it someday.)

"That’s when the sun went totally bats. Yes, I was in the core of the sun, local temperature not quite 30 million degrees, surrounded by a hot gas, density a hundred times that of water, with at a pressure of, oh, 200 billion atmospheres. I've been here before, remember? It was warm last time, too. All mum’s comments about solar core visitors vanishing without a trace came to mind.

I was not going to stay around. I was drawing very deeply indeed on my gifts, with my force field reminding me that if I dozed off I would be dead in no time at all. But usually the deep core of the sun is reasonably quiet. Now there were wild flares of power, larger and larger with every instant. There had been a fair chance that I would not make it back out, and at the moment ‘not’ was looming larger and larger."

1 second Solar Power output is insignificant relative to the energy content of the sun.

However, relative to power production, your gadget is moderately impressive. That's because the solar energy production per unit volume is about the same as your mulch pile's. You personally have a much higher power density being generated. Why is the sun warm? It put on way too many blankets. That's the 200 billion atmospheres Eclipse mentioned. Why are stars bright? That's a really really big mulch pile, hard at work turning hydrogen leaves into helium mulch.

phillies wrote:My issue was considerably more that it will eventually occur to the ISLN that the star barbarians with whom it is at war are under no constraint that would discourage them from launching systematic EE attacks against the League.

Said otherwise "Okay, now explain to me again why *Manticore* is not going to solve the core world industrial capacity problem by launching systematic EE violations against the entire League?"

The thing is that while they call the Manties neobarbs, they don't really believe it. In fact, that's the main reason why the League is doomed. The average Solly on the street knows perfectly well that even if the Manties seized the high orbitals of their home world and installed a occupation government, they'd be fine, and business would go on.

drothgery wrote:

phillies wrote:My issue was considerably more that it will eventually occur to the ISLN that the star barbarians with whom it is at war are under no constraint that would discourage them from launching systematic EE attacks against the League.

Said otherwise "Okay, now explain to me again why *Manticore* is not going to solve the core world industrial capacity problem by launching systematic EE violations against the entire League?"

The thing is that while they call the Manties neobarbs, they don't really believe it. In fact, that's the main reason why the League is doomed. The average Solly on the street knows perfectly well that even if the Manties seized the high orbitals of their home world and installed a occupation government, they'd be fine, and business would go on.

Manticore wouldn't do EE violations for several very good reasons. First, it's not in their nature to do it. They, the leadership and citizenry, simply do not believe in that sort of action. Second, it would convince everyone else, and I mean everyone, enemies and allies alike, that Manticore are truly barbarians and can't be trusted to uphold their word. Especially since I believe Manticore has firmly stated it believes in the EE and will uphold it. If they violated it, it would permanently blacken their image and name, and Third, it would invite responses of an equal nature.

phillies wrote:Said otherwise "Okay, now explain to me again why *Manticore* is not going to solve the core world industrial capacity problem by launching systematic EE violations against the entire League?"

First and foremost, Manticore and/or the GA won't be committing any Eridani Edict violations because they don't need to. With their tech advantage, they can take the high orbitals, demand surrender, and destroy industrial capacity with minimal loss of life or collateral damage.

Secondly, and no sop to SLN paranoia, if Manticore did turn planets into billiard balls, they would lose everything in the long run. Manticore CANNOT do anything that will reinforce the league instead of shattering it; they may win this war, but not shattering the League guarantees there will be a next war, which they will lose.