Wormhole FTL communication

cthia wrote:

SWM wrote:In the Honorverse, the only way to send something through a wormhole is with a hyperspace generator. In other words, the only way to communicate through a wormhole is to send a ship through. And that's how the Honorverse currently does it. Messages are sent through wormholes on ships.

Indeed. But it goes on to argue the possibility. Atomic wormhole theory perhaps could shed some light on bringing FTL via normal wormholes to fruition.

There are other available sources that delve into the physics of it much more deeply. I thought I'd include the much simpler and readily accessible wiki version. Shorter, concise.

Just google, superluminal communication pdf.

I'm afraid this is like asking "Maybe they could invent Time Travel in the Honorverse." Or "What if they invented a Warp Drive?" Or "Wouldn't it be great if they had a Black Hole Generator in the Honorverse?"

All of these things might be possible in the Real World, and presumably might be possible in the far future of the Honorverse. But apparently they have not managed to make any of these things work in the Honorverse (yet). It's no use speculating about how they could do it when we have no text evidence hinting that it is even possible in the Honorverse.

Honorverse wormholes are unrelated to the wormholes suggested by modern physics. Honorverse wormholes require hyperspace--and a form of hyperspace unlike anything suggested by modern physics. Creating artificial standard wormholes would require stellar levels of energy, and there is no reason to believe that it is any more practical for the Honorverse than it is today. (As a sidenote, creating artificial Honorverse wormholes appears to require even larger quantities of energy. The grav wave phenomenon that creates an Honorverse wormhole is stupendous.)

cthia wrote:

SWM wrote:In the Honorverse, the only way to send something through a wormhole is with a hyperspace generator. In other words, the only way to communicate through a wormhole is to send a ship through. And that's how the Honorverse currently does it. Messages are sent through wormholes on ships.

Indeed. But it goes on to argue the possibility. Atomic wormhole theory perhaps could shed some light on bringing FTL via normal wormholes to fruition.

There are other available sources that delve into the physics of it much more deeply. I thought I'd include the much simpler and readily accessible wiki version. Shorter, concise.

Just google, superluminal communication pdf.

I'm afraid this is like asking "Maybe they could invent Time Travel in the Honorverse." Or "What if they invented a Warp Drive?" Or "Wouldn't it be great if they had a Black Hole Generator in the Honorverse?"

SWM wrote:
All of these things might be possible in the Real World, and presumably might be possible in the far future of the Honorverse. But apparently they have not managed to make any of these things work in the Honorverse (yet). It's no use speculating about how they could do it when we have no text evidence hinting that it is even possible in the Honorverse.

Honorverse wormholes are unrelated to the wormholes suggested by modern physics. Honorverse wormholes require hyperspace--and a form of hyperspace unlike anything suggested by modern physics. Creating artificial standard wormholes would require stellar levels of energy, and there is no reason to believe that it is any more practical for the Honorverse than it is today. (As a sidenote, creating artificial Honorverse wormholes appears to require even larger quantities of energy. The grav wave phenomenon that creates an Honorverse wormhole is stupendous.)

Makes sense to me. Thanks. Couldn't find any discussions on it. First possible objection I saw was the difference in the phenomena which was quickly brought up. Again thanks. And another for the ...politeness.

cthia wrote:Holy batphone Batman!

I don't know whether RFC has already spoken on this subject or if it has been discussed, but casual research caught no joy, therefore...

I am surprised that the Honorverse hasn't found a way to use wormholes as a source for FTL transmissions. Current theory seems to target the herculean task of creating a wormhole to be the biggest hurdle, as opposed to the obstacles in realizing FTL via wormhole phenomena.

*** Wikipedia quote deleted ***

What effect would this technology have on the Honorverse? Certainly there would have to be receiving stations it seems. And the RMN would have one more vehicle in which to corner the market? Militarily, long distance messages could be sent in much shorter time than ships, and more efficiently.

The technology would also have a profound impact on banking.

There's what appears to be a clue in Torch of Freedom where they're discussing an unpredictable "kick" they see in the Torch wormhole. I've been assuming it's a result of ships transiting the other wormhole at The Twins. If that's correct, it's obviously possible to get some form of information through it, although whether the bandwidth would be useful is questionable.

The real problem with the idea, at least from my point of view, is that sending messages through the wormhole doesn't seem like it would do anyone very much good, given the transmission lag between the terminus and the inner system where most of the information is either created or used.

You could simply give ships transiting the wormhole a discount for carrying a secure message box. That might add another 20 minutes to a link that's already close to a dozen hours long one way.

JohnRoth wrote:

cthia wrote:Holy batphone Batman!

I don't know whether RFC has already spoken on this subject or if it has been discussed, but casual research caught no joy, therefore...

I am surprised that the Honorverse hasn't found a way to use wormholes as a source for FTL transmissions. Current theory seems to target the herculean task of creating a wormhole to be the biggest hurdle, as opposed to the obstacles in realizing FTL via wormhole phenomena.

*** Wikipedia quote deleted ***

What effect would this technology have on the Honorverse? Certainly there would have to be receiving stations it seems. And the RMN would have one more vehicle in which to corner the market? Militarily, long distance messages could be sent in much shorter time than ships, and more efficiently.

The technology would also have a profound impact on banking.

There's what appears to be a clue in Torch of Freedom where they're discussing an unpredictable "kick" they see in the Torch wormhole. I've been assuming it's a result of ships transiting the other wormhole at The Twins. If that's correct, it's obviously possible to get some form of information through it, although whether the bandwidth would be useful is questionable.

The real problem with the idea, at least from my point of view, is that sending messages through the wormhole doesn't seem like it would do anyone very much good, given the transmission lag between the terminus and the inner system where most of the information is either created or used.

You could simply give ships transiting the wormhole a discount for carrying a secure message box. That might add another 20 minutes to a link that's already close to a dozen hours long one way.

Brilliant John. I considered The Twins and whether some anomaly associated with them would support the possibility. Intuitively it just seems possible.

Since you brought it up, gives me an opportunity to ramble about treecats again. I think someone should run some intensive experiments with the cats in hyper. Would their empathic sense behave differently with several treecats in hyper?

I know, I know. Sometimes the silliest experiments yield interesting results. Perhaps The Twins...and treecats...

JohnRoth wrote:There's what appears to be a clue in Torch of Freedom where they're discussing an unpredictable "kick" they see in the Torch wormhole. I've been assuming it's a result of ships transiting the other wormhole at The Twins. If that's correct, it's obviously possible to get some form of information through it, although whether the bandwidth would be useful is questionable.

The real problem with the idea, at least from my point of view, is that sending messages through the wormhole doesn't seem like it would do anyone very much good, given the transmission lag between the terminus and the inner system where most of the information is either created or used.

You could simply give ships transiting the wormhole a discount for carrying a secure message box. That might add another 20 minutes to a link that's already close to a dozen hours long one way.

My assumption has been that the "kick" is simply due to the existence of the other wormhole, rather than ships transiting through it. But in this case, either one of us (or neither!) might be correct, since we have insufficient data.

Weird Harold wrote:

cthia wrote:Unfeasible? I can accept unfeasible. It denotes promise.

No, it denotes politeness -- ie not saying people will make day trips to the surface of the sun to sunbathe nude first.

Just need sunshoes and starlite plastic based sun screen lotion.

Well, if the bridge aspect across the system was due to the intersection of the system with the old wormhole caused it to split into two, a kick from the utilization of it might make sense, especially as it may still be partly linked, allowing for feedback between the two sections....

SWM wrote:

JohnRoth wrote:There's what appears to be a clue in Torch of Freedom where they're discussing an unpredictable "kick" they see in the Torch wormhole. I've been assuming it's a result of ships transiting the other wormhole at The Twins. If that's correct, it's obviously possible to get some form of information through it, although whether the bandwidth would be useful is questionable.

The real problem with the idea, at least from my point of view, is that sending messages through the wormhole doesn't seem like it would do anyone very much good, given the transmission lag between the terminus and the inner system where most of the information is either created or used.

You could simply give ships transiting the wormhole a discount for carrying a secure message box. That might add another 20 minutes to a link that's already close to a dozen hours long one way.

My assumption has been that the "kick" is simply due to the existence of the other wormhole, rather than ships transiting through it. But in this case, either one of us (or neither!) might be correct, since we have insufficient data.

Given the intense gravity of the terminus getting the comm signal out of the wave may prove impossible. Like a black hole what goes in might not come out.

As for gravity pulses, they may just be absorbed.

If a missile wedge hits the grav wave would it make a pulse? That might be detected on the other side. It would be expensive but a Morse code like message might be sent. Maybe a Zulu message sent by firing CM into the wave.