The transtellars in the verge and protectorates

Dauntless wrote:With the GA being responsible for the removal of OFS then they have at the least a small measure of moral responsibility to make up for their absence militarily until the locals can do it themselves.

Now how big a presence is actually needed is a much tricker subject, but probably nothing heavier than an Avalon CL or whatever replaces the Wolfhound (Wolfhound is a stripped to the bone warfighter as shown in Saltash?, they really aren't capable of much in the way of boarding actions, etc). Maybe some Sag-Cs if the pirates are rouge SLN with BCs.

There are two issues: piracy and corporations that are partnered with the ruling party without regard to the general welfare.

For piracy, then there is a clear responsibility; but what if the systems are too far from any Grand Alliance member? For instance if it happens on the other side of the League. I suggest that at some point, the GA will allow the reformed SLN to restart anti-piracy patrols; just as they are now acting against the vestiges of the slave trade.

However for the second issue, does the GA have the responsibility to root out corruption in the Verge?

PS: Have the protectorates been released back into the Verge by the demands that Honor made? Or will this accelerate their acceptance into the League?

IMHO, regarding the transtellars, several things will happen in parallel:

1) The GA will patrol some areas (there's textev, IIRC), supporting local governments.

2) Other forces like the Anderman Empire, the newly independent Maya sector or the Renaissance Factor next to the SL will expand their influence and cover some areas. Also think of smaller, but self sustaining nations similar to the Republic of Monica - they can also build alliances with their neighbours (former protectorates) - military protection as the price for political influence and better trade conditions.

3) Some worlds will leave the SL and form local alliances with their neighbours, which may include former protectorates (similar to Beowulf and their neighbours, but closer to the edge). Most of the ex SL worlds have system defence forces, which can temporarily also cover their new allied neighbours, till they build their own SDF.

5) The transtellars with headquarters within the SL have to obey the new rules, and probably also those which have considerable business with the SL (or they risk embargoes). This ought to be the majority of all transtellars - I can't imagine a transtellar using OFS to enslave protectorates without having headquarters or considerable business with "regular" SL worlds.

6) Transtellars will try to keep their trading and business, hiring mercenaries to protect their trade with the former protectorates against pirates.

Yes, this will not cover 100%, and there will be lots of fallout till everything works out - but AFAICS, the perspective for the future looks better than being OFS protectorate...

Also, in some areas there will be enough to sustain piracy for a bit. But if the piracy gets too successful it's likely to strangle the very trade it preys on, thus eventually making those areas unprofitable for the pirates.

Which is a painful way for those systems to escape their piracy problem -- but I'm sure some places will end up on that path.

Silesia was a really weird and unusual place in that it was economically strong enough, and geographically positioned well enough to generate a lot of trade while being politically and militarily so screwed up (or corrupt) for so long that there were plenty of places willing to support pirates or "privateers" and little in the way of effective local anti-piracy patrol. Most places won't be like that -- they'll either be well enough off to fairly quickly get sufficient defenses to drive off most pirates, or poor enough that pirates would starve trying to live off their sparse trade.

Dauntless wrote:With the GA being responsible for the removal of OFS then they have at the least a small measure of moral responsibility to make up for their absence militarily until the locals can do it themselves.

Now how big a presence is actually needed is a much tricker subject, but probably nothing heavier than an Avalon CL or whatever replaces the Wolfhound (Wolfhound is a stripped to the bone warfighter as shown in Saltash?, they really aren't capable of much in the way of boarding actions, etc). Maybe some Sag-Cs if the pirates are rouge SLN with BCs.

The problem with that is IIRC Honor was of the opinion that the GA DIDN'T want to take over in the role that the OFS played at. And I believe that that was also the opinion of the GA as a whole

Theemile wrote:

Dauntless wrote:With the GA being responsible for the removal of OFS then they have at the least a small measure of moral responsibility to make up for their absence militarily until the locals can do it themselves.

Now how big a presence is actually needed is a much tricker subject, but probably nothing heavier than an Avalon CL or whatever replaces the Wolfhound (Wolfhound is a stripped to the bone warfighter as shown in Saltash?, they really aren't capable of much in the way of boarding actions, etc). Maybe some Sag-Cs if the pirates are rouge SLN with BCs.

Saltash were Rolands. The 19 Wolfhounds have a crew of 83 (20 more than a Roland), so they are not much better than a Roland in the Boarding/ground combat role).

The last we heard, there are at least 200+ Avalons (Most likely closer to 300 produced by Feb 1922pd), so those are most likely the ships we will see the most of in independant patrols, if not a handful of the 48 Kammerlings (the majority of which are probably in Silesia or attached to a Nodal Fleet command as a reaction force.) In addition, we'll probably see the survivors of the legacy light combatants pushed into such roles until they can be replaced.

thanks for the correction.

The RMN really needs a ship smaller then a Sag-C, with the Roland's range and bite but still capable of everything asked of the Avalon.

Mycall4me wrote:

Dauntless wrote:With the GA being responsible for the removal of OFS then they have at the least a small measure of moral responsibility to make up for their absence militarily until the locals can do it themselves.

Now how big a presence is actually needed is a much tricker subject, but probably nothing heavier than an Avalon CL or whatever replaces the Wolfhound (Wolfhound is a stripped to the bone warfighter as shown in Saltash?, they really aren't capable of much in the way of boarding actions, etc). Maybe some Sag-Cs if the pirates are rouge SLN with BCs.

The problem with that is IIRC Honor was of the opinion that the GA DIDN'T want to take over in the role that the OFS played at. And I believe that that was also the opinion of the GA as a whole

I don't disagree, but for those sectors that have real problems that the SLN were dealing with, then SOMEONE needs to step up. Yes, if it is GA they run the risk of becoming the Galaxy's Policemen, something they don't want. Still with Silesia being tamed the RMN's officers are going to have to find somewhere new to blood the young promising officers.

Dauntless wrote:

The RMN really needs a ship smaller then a Sag-C, with the Roland's range and bite but still capable of everything asked of the Avalon.

That would be useful, though it'd be another unusual designs.

If it's smaller than a Sag-C then its beam is too narrow to mount broadside launchers for Mk16s. So it would either need to be:
A) basically a stretched Roland, with the same fore and aft missile tubes but a bit more space for extra crew and marines for patrol, S&R, boarding, prize crew, or landing parties.
B) an asymmetrical broadside, with missile tubes on only one broadside; where they extend past the centerline of the ship form that side (which makes it tricky to squeeze in engineering and whatnot that normally live on the centerline)

(Well, you could build a fat ship that was as wide as a Sag-C but stubbier and lower tonnage. But the way Honorverse compensators work that would result in a ship without the greater accel you'd expect from a smaller ship)

Option A seems the simplest.

Either that, or redesignate the Sag-C as a CL and create a new CA design to fill in the gap between Sag-C and Nike. Something around 1MT, same number of tubes but deeper magazines and maybe back to the short battalion of Marines they used to carry.

I wonder how bad the piracy issue can really get, considering that OFS/FF was causing some of it via false flag operations to pressure frontier systems into accepting their "protection". They weren't actually capturing and disposing of assets as normal pirates would either, just blowing them up as commerce raiders would, which means ex-SLN deserters turned pirate won't have a support network.

The GA might not have wanted to replace OFS, but the SEM has already set down that path with the annexation of Silesia and Talbott. As a result of the latter, they've subsequently thrown OFS out of the Meyers sector and is working to establish a new non-League-administered state in its place. See also: Mesa.

Starting with Silesia was a good move, as it removed a major - perhaps the largest - black market for pirated ships and cargoes. Mesa was the greatest faciliator of illicit interstellar activity, so that's chopped down more of the demand.

Any other third party looking to step in and exploit the opportunities has to consider that they're going to irritate not only the GA but also the mostly-intact Solarian League.

It's worth noting that OFS's job only seems so huge because OFS became the problem. As long as Manticore can restrain itself to light-touch police actions most of the problems should gradually resolve themselves.

Dauntless wrote:The RMN really needs a ship smaller then a Sag-C, with the Roland's range and bite but still capable of everything asked of the Avalon.

A time honored tradition in ~all ship classes throughout wet navy history, aviation history: Take a ship design with all the EXPENSIVE existing hardware, propulsion, etc spec'd out, cut it in half, add a new section in the middle, wash hands, call it a day.