EXTRY! EXTRY! THE SLN CONQUERS THE MBS!

Many users are assuming that the 1903 Manticore would fight the League.

I don't think they would. If some RMN commander responded to a New Tuscany-style incident the same way Michelle Henke did, that officer would be disavowed and handed over to the League, along with a big fat stack of reparations.

That disables the League constitution's self-defense provisions. Now, to generate a conquest of Manticore, our Mandarins need an unanimous vote by all League members to declare war.

cthia wrote:I know it is unlikely to ever have happened this way, but what if it did? What if the Mandarins pulled a rabbit out of their collective orifices, activated a lot of the reserve, realized what they were up against as early as 1903, maintained OpSec, and launched a successful attack against Manticore?

If they do get that declaration of war voted through, it's game over for Manticore.

President Harris curses himself for being too slow to grab Manticore and abandons the DuQuesne plan, committing the PRH to economic reforms.

My lovely niece warned me a long time ago, "Uncle, you have to make these scenarios more palatable. You know that bunch, they're not going to simply assume the givens and proceed from there. Yadda yadda yadda."

Oh drats.

As I told her in that eventful thread, I'm not quite interested in the foreplay which led up to the Galaxy's disaster. I'm interested only in the aftermath. However, I really do understand ThinksMarkedly's concerns of wanting to know what caused this snafu, to better be able to judge the SL's... disposition? LOL

I'm not laughing out of disrespect, or because it isn't a valid concern. I'm laughing because the notion is applied to the SL. I'm laughing at the notion that Manticore's fate would ultimately depend on any other intangibles besides what the almighty SL would want--as a result of its Greed, Arrogance, the huge green expansionist streak running down it's back, and um, the aforementioned centuries long festering resentment--regardless and completely independent of any cause. It is illogical to apply normal human logic and sentiments to the MA or the SL. Very illogical. But truly sweet, like grandma.

What does make me roll over busting a gut giggling is the notion that this is "out of the blue" after centuries of enduring the MBS cornering the Galaxy's markets. Maybe one of the Mandarins had a relative aboard a freighter where there was an incident. Maybe a SL registered freighter was impounded for smuggling which led to a shooting incident. Or just maybe a Mandarin woke up on the wrong side of the bed fed up with the uppity neobarbs, tabled a motion to squash them and it was seconded, thirded, fourthed, and fifthed. Or, maybe they just saw the writing on the wall and wanted to strike before the Haven Sector became The Great and Powerful Oz.

Or, maybe the oldest beef of human kind and human nature in human history was the catalyst of the war. A woman. A beautiful woman. As thus, it is said, it was with Troy.

Beowulf. Beowulf. Where for art thou lovely Beowulf? Fornicating with the enemy doing things you mustn't.

Your "slip" is showing, Beowulf. And the Gorilla is pounding his chest. You don't mess with another man's girl. You don't dare dream about a Gorilla's girl.


The cause nor the battle is what interests me. The disposition and dispensation of the enormous booties does.

Do note: The scenario describes a quartet of Mandarins and SLN officers who are not wearing blinders. They know what they're up against. They send the equivalent of two Raging Justices all at once! And then some!

Who knows, maybe a non-nanited MA operative grew a conscience and had a hand in it too.

Late edits are owed to the grammar police. Who still may be lurking.

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munroburton wrote:Many users are assuming that the 1903 Manticore would fight the League.

I don't think they would. If some RMN commander responded to a New Tuscany-style incident the same way Michelle Henke did, that officer would be disavowed and handed over to the League, along with a big fat stack of reparations.

That disables the League constitution's self-defense provisions. Now, to generate a conquest of Manticore, our Mandarins need an unanimous vote by all League members to declare war.

cthia wrote:I know it is unlikely to ever have happened this way, but what if it did? What if the Mandarins pulled a rabbit out of their collective orifices, activated a lot of the reserve, realized what they were up against as early as 1903, maintained OpSec, and launched a successful attack against Manticore?

If they do get that declaration of war voted through, it's game over for Manticore.

President Harris curses himself for being too slow to grab Manticore and abandons the DuQuesne plan, committing the PRH to economic reforms.

Along with a great big apple pie from Beth, in 1903!

Let's assume they either got that declaration of war, somehow, or skirted around it. I certainly agree, they couldn't have stood up to a completely mobilized SLN that isn't wearing blinders, in 1903.

cthia wrote:What does make me roll over busting a gut giggling is the notion that this is "out of the blue" after centuries of enduring the MBS cornering the Galaxy's markets.

The reason it's out of the blue.

It's been 200 years since the League attacked anyone with a substantial system defense navy. Even that didn't call upon Battle Fleet heavily, with Frontier Fleet doing most of the work.

cthia wrote:Let's assume they either got that declaration of war, somehow, or skirted around it. I certainly agree, they couldn't have stood up to a completely mobilized SLN that isn't wearing blinders, in 1903.

You've already got your answer. Manticore is crushed, utterly crushed into total irrelevance if the League went that far before 1914. Honor Harrington dies with the entire RMN and at best, the Wintons become like that King of Meyers; a puppet figurehead serving at the pleasure of a Solarian Frontier Commissioner.

munroburton wrote:

cthia wrote:What does make me roll over busting a gut giggling is the notion that this is "out of the blue" after centuries of enduring the MBS cornering the Galaxy's markets.

The reason it's out of the blue.

It's been 200 years since the League attacked anyone with a substantial system defense navy. Even that didn't call upon Battle Fleet heavily, with Frontier Fleet doing most of the work.

cthia wrote:Let's assume they either got that declaration of war, somehow, or skirted around it. I certainly agree, they couldn't have stood up to a completely mobilized SLN that isn't wearing blinders, in 1903.

You've already got your answer. Manticore is crushed, utterly crushed into total irrelevance if the League went that far before 1914. Honor Harrington dies with the entire RMN and at best, the Wintons become like that King of Meyers; a puppet figurehead serving at the pleasure of a Solarian Frontier Commissioner.

That's just one answer of many questions. What about Grayson? What about Project Gram? What about Beowulf?

Can the SLN successfully occupy Manticore?

I'm certain the MA is disgusted with the turn of events. But this might just offer them a golden goose. The MA can covertly assist the RMN to rise from the ashes and defeat the SL and retake the system, long before their foolhardy plan of Oyster Bay which angered the Manticorans. The IAN and Haven may want to join Grayson in the endeavor.

And whoa, who said anything about Honor dying. She was out of the system on Grayson. Ok, ok, she was secretly laying up with a lover. I'll vouch for her in court.

cthia wrote:That's just one answer of many questions. What about Grayson? What about Project Gram? What about Beowulf?

Well in 1903 PD Grayson has only just signed up to the alliance. They may still have only the handful of obsolete cruiser that survived Thunder of God's attack. At best they have the first few Star Knight-class CA that were given to them; though the modified Star Knights that they operated as the Alvarez-class weren't around until 1904.

So militarily and economically they're irrelevant. As I said in my earlier post their best case is to keep their head down and hope they're now uninteresting enough for everyone to ignore.
Haven now has no reason to scoop them up - they can't help it's economy and not being crazy or desperate enough to attack a League occupied Manticore they don't need it as a military base. And OFS is going to be tied up at Manticore (and the profits to be reaped there) and probably won't be looking for economically limited nearby systems to scoop up.

As for project Gram - I can spitefully hope that BuWeaps and the R&D folks were able to wipe all files and destroy all notes and prototype to keep it out of the hands of the League. But that's about the best case for it.

If Manticore is conquered there's no coming back from that.

What about Beowulf? They're still friendly with Manticore; but they can't undo an occupation of it. And the Mandarina, transtellars, and OFS have strong reasons to do whatever they can to keep it an occupied protectorate rather than letting it become the full voting shell (or even core) system that it's economy, population, and stability objectively qualify it for. (After all, if they did that Manticore might try to exercise its constitutional right to secede. Or at least kick the transtellars and OFS cronies out - and then where would their profits be?)

Jonathan_S wrote:If Manticore is conquered there's no coming back from that.

What about Beowulf? They're still friendly with Manticore; but they can't undo an occupation of it. And the Mandarina, transtellars, and OFS have strong reasons to do whatever they can to keep it an occupied protectorate rather than letting it become the full voting shell (or even core) system that it's economy, population, and stability objectively qualify it for. (After all, if they did that Manticore might try to exercise its constitutional right to succeed. Or at least kick the transtellars and OFS cronies out - and then where would their profits be?)

But if they did secede, that does not mean that they regain control of the wormhole junction; since it is not in their territorial space.

cthia wrote:And whoa, who said anything about Honor dying. She was out of the system on Grayson. Ok, ok, she was secretly laying up with a lover. I'll vouch for her in court.

You would be committing perjury, because she did not have a boyfriend until the events of SVW; which are in an alternate timeline in 1905. She might not have died because she would be on medical leave trying to rehabilitate from the events of OBS (which occur in 1903).

However Captain Helen Zilwicki might have died fighting the SLN, instead of the alternate fight with Havenite raiders in 1904.

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:And whoa, who said anything about Honor dying. She was out of the system on Grayson. Ok, ok, she was secretly laying up with a lover. I'll vouch for her in court.

You would be committing perjury, because she did not have a boyfriend until the events of SVW; which are in an alternate timeline in 1905. She might not have died because she would be on medical leave trying to rehabilitate from the events of OBS (which occur in 1903).

However Captain Helen Zilwicki might have died fighting the SLN, instead of the alternate fight with Havenite raiders in 1904.

I wasn't her boyfriend, I was her lover. But I don't kiss and tell. In a court of law I would protect her innocence like Jessica Chastain's lover protected her in Miss Sloane. What a movie.

If I were the RMN, I'd smuggle all of Project Gram's secrets to a third-party, like Grayson, and or the IAN.

cthia wrote:I wasn't her boyfriend, I was her lover. But I don't kiss and tell. In a court of law I would protect her innocence like Jessica Chastain's lover protected her in Miss Sloane. What a movie.

She didn't have any until Paul Tankersley.

If I were the RMN, I'd smuggle all of Project Gram's secrets to a third-party, like Grayson, and or the IAN.

That I can believe. Grayson may be an out-of-the-spotlight place to stash your prototypes, where the SLN would never thought of looking. But to develop them into a fighting force that could retake the system, they'd need the Andies.

I don't see why the Andies would want to fight, though.