Treecat Social Dynamics

cthia wrote:Ariel is historically a male name. But in the last something odd years in English speaking countries it has been used primarily as a female name, so says the internet. Someone had to correct me that Beth's Cat, Ariel, is indeed male. Every Ariel I've known is female, although I've only known two. Three if you count Disney's Princess, The Little Mermaid.

But I digress. Do we have any known cases of same sex bonds? I can't think of any. Surely there must be, or do Cats prefer to bond with the opposite sex? As far as we know.

Yes, Beth's Ariel is male. But you don't have to look too far to find treecats who've bonded with humans of the same sex. Beth's husband, Justin is bonded to Monroe (male) who was previously bonded to King Rodger III.

Also Clean Killer (later Fire Watch) is male and he bonded to
Damien Harahap (treecat name 'Plays with Fire').

Also we're told in Honor Among Enemies - when getting introduced to Samantha - that "Harold Tschu was a fellow Sphinxian, but his companion was an even more unusual off-Sphinx sight than Nimitz or Odysseus, for she was female. Most 'cats who adopted humans were male." And there's no evidence that the majority of humans adapted are female - though certainly the majority of those who've shown up in the books are.

I suspect that same sex bond probably run around 50%. We just have so few bonds shown in the books that we don't have a broad view from which to draw reasonable statistics.

So, that inspired me to to a bit of search, and with the help of the wiki these seem to be all the bonded tree cats we've seen at least once in the books.

Known treecat bondings
Male 'Cat:
* Lionheart, bonded with Stephanie Harrington.
* Fisher, bonded with Dr. Scott MacDallan
* Survivor (Keen Eyes), bonded with Karl Zivonik
* Dunatis, bonded with General William MacClintock (Sphinx Forestry Service)
* Musashi, bonded with Colonel Marcy Alcerro's (Sphinx Forestry Service)
* Parsifal, bonded with <unknown; presumably a forestry service member>
* Sylvester, bonded with <unknown; presumably a forestry service member>
* Dianchect, bonded with Queen Adrienne I.
* The Stray (True Stalker), bonded with Arvin Erhardt
* Valiant (Dirt Grubber), bonded with Jessica Pheriss
* Mangus, bonded with Queen Samantha II
* Nimitz, bonded with Honor Harrington.
* Hipper, bonded with Rachel Mayhew.
* Ariel, bonded with Queen Elizabeth III
* Monroe, bonded first with King Roger III and later with Justin Zyrr-Winton, the Queen's Consort.
* Alfredo, bonded with Massimiliano Cognasso
* Banshee, bonded with Roslee Orndorff.
* Farragut, bonded with Miranda LaFollet.
* Genghis, bonded with Judson Van Hale.
* Odysseus, bonded with Aristophones Georgides (Lt. RMN)
* Oliver Wendell Holmes, bonded with Barry Freeman (Queen's Own)
* Pounces on Leaves, bonded with Antoine Jubair (Manticore Special Intelligence Service)
* Fire Watch (aka Clean Killer), bonded with Damien Harahap


Female 'Cat:
* Samantha, bonded first with Harold Tschu and later with Hamish Alexander.

So of the male cats we know of 11 were bonded to males and 9 were bonded to females, and 2 their bonded humans weren't identified (they were part of the group that protected the future Queen Adrienne I from assissination on Sphinx). So that seems to bear out both that most treecats who bond are male but that the split of bonded humans is closer to 50/50.

Jonathan_S wrote:So, that inspired me to to a bit of search, and with the help of the wiki these seem to be all the bonded tree cats we've seen at least once in the books.

Known treecat bondings
Male 'Cat:
* Lionheart, bonded with Stephanie Harrington.
* Fisher, bonded with Dr. Scott MacDallan
* Survivor (Keen Eyes), bonded with Karl Zivonik
* Dunatis, bonded with General William MacClintock (Sphinx Forestry Service)
* Musashi, bonded with Colonel Marcy Alcerro's (Sphinx Forestry Service)
* Parsifal, bonded with <unknown; presumably a forestry service member>
* Sylvester, bonded with <unknown; presumably a forestry service member>
* Dianchect, bonded with Queen Adrienne I.
* The Stray (True Stalker), bonded with Arvin Erhardt
* Valiant (Dirt Grubber), bonded with Jessica Pheriss
* Mangus, bonded with Queen Samantha II
* Nimitz, bonded with Honor Harrington.
* Hipper, bonded with Rachel Mayhew.
* Ariel, bonded with Queen Elizabeth III
* Monroe, bonded first with King Roger III and later with Justin Zyrr-Winton, the Queen's Consort.
* Alfredo, bonded with Massimiliano Cognasso
* Banshee, bonded with Roslee Orndorff.
* Farragut, bonded with Miranda LaFollet.
* Genghis, bonded with Judson Van Hale.
* Odysseus, bonded with Aristophones Georgides (Lt. RMN)
* Oliver Wendell Holmes, bonded with Barry Freeman (Queen's Own)
* Pounces on Leaves, bonded with Antoine Jubair (Manticore Special Intelligence Service)
* Fire Watch (aka Clean Killer), bonded with Damien Harahap


Female 'Cat:
* Samantha, bonded first with Harold Tschu and later with Hamish Alexander.

So of the male cats we know of 11 were bonded to males and 9 were bonded to females, and 2 their bonded humans weren't identified (they were part of the group that protected the future Queen Adrienne I from assissination on Sphinx). So that seems to bear out both that most treecats who bond are male but that the split of bonded humans is closer to 50/50.

Thanks for the exhaustive research. I meant to edit my statement that I couldn't remember any same sex bonds except Harahap's. But all of the rest of your research either slipped out of my memory or flew under my radar. Again, thanks.

cthia wrote:Do Treecats prefer to address their two-legs by their human or Cat name? Do they address two-legs by their Cat name when communicating with other Cats? Is Honor mainly known as Dances on Clouds amongst the Cats?

By their treecat names. When they began, with no communication possible, it was impossible to tell a two-leg's mouth-noise from other mouth-noise. So they give names. Treecat names are also fluid.

Beth is "Soul of Steel" and Theisman is "Dreams of Peace." In fact, we heard "Soul of Steel's Clan" as a phrase before we heard whom they were referring to.

The interesting question is if they sometimes address each other by their human names. In Princess Adrienne's story, Seeker of Dreams mentions one of the treecats was "Sylvester" (and I thought, "of course someone would give that name," just like David Brin said in The Uplift War that one of the constellations in that planet's sky was "The Batman").

Anyone recall Harahap's Cat-given name?

Plays with Fire.

Poor Fire Watch wouldn't understand why the two-legs grinned when he revealed the name he gave Harahap.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

cthia wrote:Do Treecats prefer to address their two-legs by their human or Cat name? Do they address two-legs by their Cat name when communicating with other Cats? Is Honor mainly known as Dances on Clouds amongst the Cats?

By their treecat names. When they began, with no communication possible, it was impossible to tell a two-leg's mouth-noise from other mouth-noise. So they give names. Treecat names are also fluid.

Beth is "Soul of Steel" and Theisman is "Dreams of Peace." In fact, we heard "Soul of Steel's Clan" as a phrase before we heard whom they were referring to.

The interesting question is if they sometimes address each other by their human names. In Princess Adrienne's story, Seeker of Dreams mentions one of the treecats was "Sylvester" (and I thought, "of course someone would give that name," just like David Brin said in The Uplift War that one of the constellations in that planet's sky was "The Batman").

Anyone recall Harahap's Cat-given name?

Plays with Fire.

Poor Fire Watch wouldn't understand why the two-legs grinned when he revealed the name he gave Harahap.

Yes, that is an interesting question, and brilliant. Why shouldn't the Cats sometimes use their human names, at least as humor. Textev does corroborate the existence of a Cat's humerus.

Plays With Fire. Yes! Thanks.

What would be great as well is knowing how some of the Cats got their People name. Leaf Catcher? Clean Killer? If Clean Killer's name is intuitive, he was feared in a Hexapuma's camp.

An aside: If a Cat is so attuned to your psyche that they can hit the nail on the head when naming two-legs... Dancing on Clouds, Dreams of Peace, Soul of Steel, Plays with Fire, it would be humorous if they went around sharing the would be names of random two-legs. Of course, Pavel Young's name would have been Wormhole. What of someone who dreams of, ahem, "girls?" LOL

A treecat's name can change, it is never stated what it was but "seeker of dreams" was given that name by one his elders after his last "chat" with them about bonding with a two-leg, prior to seeking out sings truly.

Dauntless wrote:A treecat's name can change, it is never stated what it was but "seeker of dreams" was given that name by one his elders after his last "chat" with them about bonding with a two-leg, prior to seeking out sings truly.

Yep. Heck, Clean Killer changed his name to Fire Watch after bonding with Plays with Fire (Harahap).

Treecat names seem to be a form of only semi-permanent descriptor. A life change or major event can cause them to change their name.

Or think of the famous memory singer Sings From Silence who was the first treecat to start to figure out spoken language. She wouldn't have been known by that name before the accident that lost her her ability to hear other mind-voices. We just don't happen to know her previous name(s).

Heck, I'd bet most treecats change their names at least once in their lives. Their parents have to call them something after they're born but the kind of names we've heard, tailored to their personality or actions, or based on a significant event, would have to come later once they'd grown enough to start showing their adult personality or able to start being more independent, etc. So I suspect a newborn 'cat's name would be more generic and unlikely to stick through their lives -- though I guess some of the appearance based names might survive.

Jonathan_S wrote:

Dauntless wrote:A treecat's name can change, it is never stated what it was but "seeker of dreams" was given that name by one his elders after his last "chat" with them about bonding with a two-leg, prior to seeking out sings truly.

Yep. Heck, Clean Killer changed his name to Fire Watch after bonding with Plays with Fire (Harahap).

Treecat names seem to be a form of only semi-permanent descriptor. A life change or major event can cause them to change their name.

Or think of the famous memory singer Sings From Silence who was the first treecat to start to figure out spoken language. She wouldn't have been known by that name before the accident that lost her her ability to hear other mind-voices. We just don't happen to know her previous name(s).

Heck, I'd bet most treecats change their names at least once in their lives. Their parents have to call them something after they're born but the kind of names we've heard, tailored to their personality or actions, or based on a significant event, would have to come later once they'd grown enough to start showing their adult personality or able to start being more independent, etc. So I suspect a newborn 'cat's name would be more generic and unlikely to stick through their lives -- though I guess some of the appearance based names might survive.

Those are interesting thoughts. The fact that a Cat is named after their personality is interesting in itself. If you think about it, Humans do the same, only as a nickname. Initially, perhaps a Cat's first name comes from its mother's travels. Like, what was going on in the mother's or clan's life while the Cat is in the womb.

BTW, anyone know the gestation period of a Cat?

I would imagine a species of empaths don't have to rely on static names for identification.

Question. Wasn't there mention of a Cat who was a criminal? What became of him? Are Cats banished from a clan? If so, what becomes of them? Will they seek acceptance by another clan? And, depending on how criminal a Cat can become, if they commit a crime against the government, will they be placed in a Treecat prison?

An aside: I never truly understood the need of a Cat to bond when they are in love with another Cat. Why would a Cat want to bond with a two-leg knowing it will undoubtedly separate them for endless months? And even when they return, they spend most of their time atop a two-leg.

Cats are known to have high sex drives. Two-leg business can separate them far longer than a female Cat in heat can stand. It isn't like a Cat can fool around with another Cat while on shore leave in another system, or go to a bar and pick up a stray cat. What happens if a male Cat returns and his mate has given birth to another male's offspring. In there such a thing as Treecat infidelity.

cthia wrote:An aside: I never truly understood the need of a Cat to bond when they are in love with another Cat. Why would a Cat want to bond with a two-leg knowing it will undoubtedly separate them for endless months? And even when they return, they spend most of their time atop a two-leg.

They don't. It seems you either choose to mate or you choose to adopt, not both. All cats that adopted were single and the vast majority of them male. So it seems that once they adopt, they don't feel the need to mate; they become dedicated to their two-legs.

Nimitz and Samantha were clearly a special case. There's nothing obvious why that was different from any other casual mating, aside from the fact that they were off-planet. It's possible they were also the first mating of a pair of bonded cats. Given how few females adopted, it's likely there weren't many chances before for this circumstance. And being off-planet and isolated from the clans and community drove them closer, which led to mating.

Cats are known to have high sex drives. Two-leg business can separate them far longer than a female Cat in heat can stand. It isn't like a Cat can fool around with another Cat while on shore leave in another system, or go to a bar and pick up a stray cat. What happens if a male Cat returns and his mate has given birth to another male's offspring. In there such a thing as Treecat infidelity.

Where did you get any of this?