Disadvantages of Allies

winsettz wrote:The entirely prudent move to avoid tech jealousy would be tranche the transfers and focus on non-military equipment. Even if Manticore and Haven decided to share everything in production, it would take Haven some time to re-engineer for their existing technical base. Manticores tech-base is running, and Haven was at a crawl, but is now walking, and about to power-walk.

The alliance only works so long as everyone alive trusts each other. Once the current generation is out, the next one is probably going to muck it all up again.

noblehunter wrote:I think the trend in history is that the third generation screws it up. The immediate successors of the current leadership will know perfectly well how bad things could get if it all goes sideways. It's the people after them that will be much more likely to forget the costs of blowing things up.

noblehunter wrote:I think the trend in history is that the third generation screws it up. The immediate successors of the current leadership will know perfectly well how bad things could get if it all goes sideways. It's the people after them that will be much more likely to forget the costs of blowing things up.

kzt wrote:

cthia wrote:What exactly is the continued carrot and stick vis a vis Haven and Manticore? I know, I know. Spoilers. Price of being a virgin. Drats and rats.

I think it's "We, the RMN, will give you, the RHN, the entirety of the last 70 years of R&D. You, the RHN, promise that you won't come and kick our asses using your massively larger navy and your total understanding of our technology. And if you do come and kick our asses we won't invite the President to the Queen's birthday celebration."

Vince wrote:

noblehunter wrote:I think the trend in history is that the third generation screws it up. The immediate successors of the current leadership will know perfectly well how bad things could get if it all goes sideways. It's the people after them that will be much more likely to forget the costs of blowing things up.

Very true, but with prolong available in the Honorverse, the generations are lasting much longer, so the first generation will be alive for 200 or so more years to keep help things on an even keel. (How long they will be in power is another question entirely.) Possibly offsetting the length of time the first generation will be around, the second generation may not fully be on the scene (as a result of people delaying having children) until much later with prolong available, so they might have more in common with the third and later generations.

cthia wrote:There is always the disadvantage of having to rely on an ally's vetting prowess in a pinch. Resulting in it biting you in the ass. Vetting lapses can exact terrible costs.

ldwechsler wrote:

cthia wrote:There is always the disadvantage of having to rely on an ally's vetting prowess in a pinch. Resulting in it biting you in the ass. Vetting lapses can exact terrible costs.

Projecting that far into the future is difficult. For example, prolong could get a boost and people might live two centuries. Since they might only have a couple of children, change would be very slow.

Or they might have a lot of them.

There are too many factors to predict.

Had a conversation with a couple of acquaintances who have government security clearances and I was informed that they have to be vetted every five years. Naive lil ole me thought it was a one time and you're done ordeal. I took their lead and researched it a bit further online and yep, England, The U.S. and other countries vet at regular intervals depending on the job, situation, exposure and risk factor.

It was explained to me that the vetting process may become even more aggressive as you are exposed to various risky conditions. Part of the vetting process may include intensive psychiatric evaluations if necessary. Depending on where and what you were exposed to, vetting can take on an entirely different "tailored" turn, e.g., if you are exposed to a region across the pond where terrorist cells run amok, you automatically become a higher risk and may be vetted to catch any rogue elements -- perhaps having been approached by said criminal cells.

Apparently there are unlimited circumstances that can increase one's ever changing risk factor and alter the size and aggressiveness of the sieve.

Appears as if Grayson's armsmen and perhaps the Maccabeus group should have been part of a consistent ongoing scheduled vetting program. Bottom line, Grayson's armsmen should have been vetted several times over by now. IMO.