YILDUN - such a tough nut to crack

Wait I know how they can "neutralize" YID! They sell YID some export grade examples of their tech if YID agrees not to sell to the SLN for a couple years! The Sollies are nearly insolvent and they spent a heck of a lot to get their hands on some Manty tech samples.

Hell, that sprint drive concept seems like it has real potential. Maybe a nice tech swap? Although that's probably a violation of Solly law, so Yildun would need to secede first.

quite possibly a cat wrote:Yildun would need to secede first.

I think joining the Solarian League just so you can secede is a bit convoluted even for MAlign associates. :p

I'm not sure that a transstellar corporation's wholly-owned private property can join the league anyway. Yildun is essentially an uninhabited and uninhabitable system -- the equivalent of an offshore drilling platform

I was under the impression they had joined the League for some reason... Also I thought they had claimed they were a real star nation. Whatever point stands, the Manties can probably buy them off for much less than an invasion would cost.

quite possibly a cat wrote:I was under the impression they had joined the League for some reason... Also I thought they had claimed they were a real star nation. Whatever point stands, the Manties can probably buy them off for much less than an invasion would cost.

Technodyne is a SL transstellar home based on some dwarf star [my assumption] Like ODECO [daddy Bush's drilling corporation] being headquartered on oil platform 138 2-1/2 miles offshore from Corpus Christi instead of Houston. They apparently have a close corporate connection to either Kolokainos shipping or Manpower, or both. . They also have little problem with ignoring SL regulations on tech transfer My impression.

pappilon wrote:They also have little problem with ignoring SL regulations on tech transfer My impression.

Apparently the tech transfers largely died out as more regulations were imposed due to Manticoran pressure.

kzt wrote:

pappilon wrote:They also have little problem with ignoring SL regulations on tech transfer My impression.

Apparently the tech transfers largely died out as more regulations were imposed due to Manticoran pressure.

Tech transfers died when Erewhon deserted during High Ridge's government. They signed a treaty with Haven. Which pissed Elizabeth off (pardon the pun) royally. Erewhon turned over virtually everything including hardware, manuals, and training sims. basically everything except Apollo and possibly FTL. Not sure about that, seem to recall something about Haven having finally developed some crude FTL from the transfer. having modern Manty tech they didn't need, to borrow from another thread obsolete Sl cra, er, garbage.

cthia wrote: Isn't Mistletoe an armed, stealthed drone that was used to destroy Moriarty platforms? Why can it not be adapted to destroy pods? Can a nuclear capable version be produced? Would a nuclear version be more effective in the midst of pods?

Not only can that be done it actually was done during Mistletoes very first operational use; at Lovat. After using laserhead drones to kill the 3 Moriarty platforms they used additional nuke (only),"five-hundred-megaton range" equipped drones to kill many of the Havenite system defense pods

At All Costs: Ch. 57 wrote:"Not just Moriarty, Ma'am," he grated. "It looks like we're going to have to start deploying the system defense pods further apart. They just took out three-quarters of the Beta echelon and almost that many of the Delta birds."

Of course there's no guarantee that your enemy will leave their pods too close together. If you can't kill large numbers of pods with each Mistletoe it's not really cost effective to expend big expensive drones to nuke them.

Eagleeye wrote:As far as I can remember, the missile range from rest, if you only fire the 3 drives one after another without any ballistic phase included, is somehow around 64 million kilometers. Honor herself conceded to Tourville (in MoH, I think), that he was out of effective range of her ships in the BoMa, because he was around a 100 million kilometers away. And even for the attack against Admiral Chin in the same battle, Honor needed a ballistic segment - and Chin was no more than 72.93 million kilometers away (according to AaC, Chapter 68)

It is possible - in fact, I'm sure of that - that there were enhancements since that battle, both in drive endurance and fire control - but nonetheless, I think, that the MDM with 3 drives has no more than 80 million kilometers without a ballistic phase integrated in it. The system defense Apollo missile, with 4 drives, is yet another animal, of course.

Max powered range on MDMs (excluding the 4 drive system defense variants) hasn't seemed to change since they were introduced.

Though it should have as by Ashes of Victory their max accel had crept up from the 92,000 gees planned to 95,000 gees, and then 96,000 gees; before seeming to drop back to 92,000 gees. 96,000 gees implies a 48,000 gee half-power which would result in a 68.5 million km range)

But the big improvement that we haven't seen would be to merge ERM tech with MDMs giving 3 half-power drives of at least 225 seconds endurance each (vs 180). 675 seconds at just 46,000 gees would push the powered range to 102 million km. Though there probably wasn't much call for that in MDMs as they could already fly further than they could effectively be controlled (without FTL links).

Where ERM + MDM would be useful is in Mk16s. That longer burn time would bump their 2 drives from 30 million km to 45.6 million km.


For the moment anything, from rest, of over 65 million km still seems to require a ballistic segment from Mk23s. However the practical limits for the RMN now are Apollo FTL control range. At the BoM Tourville was a bit further than you said, 8 light minutes or 143,900,000 km, and that was beyond signal range without using a relay of some sort.
We saw Apollo used at Solon at 3 light minutes 53,962,000 km), against Chin at 4 light minutes ~73,000,000 km) and in simulations in SftS at 4.4 light minutes (79,150,000 km) without problems.
Though as a simulation of, IIRC, BC(P)s with Keyhole II - something that's beyond their current tech - the FTL range might have been boosted as well.


But we don't have hard numbers on how far the transceiver on an Mk23-E can talk to a keyhole II. That, much more than powered range, is the limit on effective MDM fire now. (And why Mycroft is so useful. It can relay a control link signal a few dozen light minutes with less lag than a lightspeed controlled MDM had at it's max powered range. And even with a ballistic segment a target can't really run out of the engagement basket during the missiles' flight time)

Jonathan_S wrote:

cthia wrote: Isn't Mistletoe an armed, stealthed drone that was used to destroy Moriarty platforms? Why can it not be adapted to destroy pods? Can a nuclear capable version be produced? Would a nuclear version be more effective in the midst of pods?

Not only can that be done it actually was done during Mistletoes very first operational use; at Lovat. After using laserhead drones to kill the 3 Moriarty platforms they used additional nuke (only),"five-hundred-megaton range" equipped drones to kill many of the Havenite system defense pods

At All Costs: Ch. 57 wrote:"Not just Moriarty, Ma'am," he grated. "It looks like we're going to have to start deploying the system defense pods further apart. They just took out three-quarters of the Beta echelon and almost that many of the Delta birds."

Of course there's no guarantee that your enemy will leave their pods too close together. If you can't kill large numbers of pods with each Mistletoe it's not really cost effective to expend big expensive drones to nuke them.

Eagleeye wrote:As far as I can remember, the missile range from rest, if you only fire the 3 drives one after another without any ballistic phase included, is somehow around 64 million kilometers. Honor herself conceded to Tourville (in MoH, I think), that he was out of effective range of her ships in the BoMa, because he was around a 100 million kilometers away. And even for the attack against Admiral Chin in the same battle, Honor needed a ballistic segment - and Chin was no more than 72.93 million kilometers away (according to AaC, Chapter 68)

It is possible - in fact, I'm sure of that - that there were enhancements since that battle, both in drive endurance and fire control - but nonetheless, I think, that the MDM with 3 drives has no more than 80 million kilometers without a ballistic phase integrated in it. The system defense Apollo missile, with 4 drives, is yet another animal, of course.

Max powered range on MDMs (excluding the 4 drive system defense variants) hasn't seemed to change since they were introduced.

Though it should have as by Ashes of Victory their max accel had crept up from the 92,000 gees planned to 95,000 gees, and then 96,000 gees; before seeming to drop back to 92,000 gees. 96,000 gees implies a 48,000 gee half-power which would result in a 68.5 million km range)

But the big improvement that we haven't seen would be to merge ERM tech with MDMs giving 3 half-power drives of at least 225 seconds endurance each (vs 180). 675 seconds at just 46,000 gees would push the powered range to 102 million km. Though there probably wasn't much call for that in MDMs as they could already fly further than they could effectively be controlled (without FTL links).

Where ERM + MDM would be useful is in Mk16s. That longer burn time would bump their 2 drives from 30 million km to 45.6 million km.


For the moment anything, from rest, of over 65 million km still seems to require a ballistic segment from Mk23s. However the practical limits for the RMN now are Apollo FTL control range. At the BoM Tourville was a bit further than you said, 8 light minutes or 143,900,000 km, and that was beyond signal range without using a relay of some sort.
We saw Apollo used at Solon at 3 light minutes 53,962,000 km), against Chin at 4 light minutes ~73,000,000 km) and in simulations in SftS at 4.4 light minutes (79,150,000 km) without problems.
Though as a simulation of, IIRC, BC(P)s with Keyhole II - something that's beyond their current tech - the FTL range might have been boosted as well.


But we don't have hard numbers on how far the transceiver on an Mk23-E can talk to a keyhole II. That, much more than powered range, is the limit on effective MDM fire now. (And why Mycroft is so useful. It can relay a control link signal a few dozen light minutes with less lag than a lightspeed controlled MDM had at it's max powered range. And even with a ballistic segment a target can't really run out of the engagement basket during the missiles' flight time)

For Morierty use, what the Sys Def missiles need is a "sustainer" drive setting - just 500-1000Gs for a long time - that would allow active wedges the entire run along with allowing course correction, without the need to run the missile to 90% the speed of light. Dropping a missile drive to those speeds would probably allow 10s of hours of cruising, but only 20-60 minutes would probably be required. Using it on the 3rd drive would allow the missile to accelerate with the first 2, cruise using the 3rd, and attack using the 4th.