Armor in the Honorverse

I once saw a schematic of a Honorverse laser warhead as it deploys somewhere but I can't find it now - it was years ago. Based off it, I'd calculated that each individual laser from each lasing rod struck with the equivalent of a kiloton-range nuke focused on a target less than a meter across.

Anyone remember where that schematic was?



As for armor, I was asking because we've seen tank armor in the Honorverse pierced by kinetic weapons. Man-portable mass drivers to be exact. Specifically, a kinetic projectile less than a meter long going at 4 km/second. That's "only" four times the kinetic energy of a real life kinetic penetrator fired by a M1A2 tank today, assuming materials of comparable density. How did that projectile penetrate Honorverse tank armor at all?

Belial666 wrote:I once saw a schematic of a Honorverse laser warhead as it deploys somewhere but I can't find it now - it was years ago. Based off it, I'd calculated that each individual laser from each lasing rod struck with the equivalent of a kiloton-range nuke focused on a target less than a meter across.

Anyone remember where that schematic was?



As for armor, I was asking because we've seen tank armor in the Honorverse pierced by kinetic weapons. Man-portable mass drivers to be exact. Specifically, a kinetic projectile less than a meter long going at 4 km/second. That's "only" four times the kinetic energy of a real life kinetic penetrator fired by a M1A2 tank today, assuming materials of comparable density. How did that projectile penetrate Honorverse tank armor at all?

Schematic is in back of SftS

As for the armor... I could answer, but figured I would ask this question/statement first: I thought you were studying to become a mechanical engineer?

Astrophysicist, actually.


And I did check the impact velocity needed for liquefaction - it's over 10 km/second for most carbon composites, around 18 km/second for diamondoids. There's no way a 4 km/second impact would have done anything other than shatter the penetrator against Honorverse armor.


Unless for some reason that tank had metal armor instead.

Wasn't it on a backwater planet? And the roof of the APC,not MBT, was targeted?

Belial666 wrote:Astrophysicist, actually.


And I did check the impact velocity needed for liquefaction - it's over 10 km/second for most carbon composites, around 18 km/second for diamondoids. There's no way a 4 km/second impact would have done anything other than shatter the penetrator against Honorverse armor.


Unless for some reason that tank had metal armor instead.

First off, I do not do "armor calcs" often. In fact it has been many years since I have done such a calc. Back when I was working steam turbines and steam turbine installation. Even then, after doing a couple, it became rote look up table I created for myself. All employees were required to create their own lookup table to prove they could not only do the calc, but create a simple tool so they would not continue wasting their time creating said table over and over and over and over... IE how the Honorverse does not work. Sorry, couldn't help myself at that jab.

Well, those numbers are "correct" if and only if the armor in question is about 10m thick and inviolate. There are many other variables.

How much mass needs liquification is the major factor. For liquification to occur the armor in question instantly heats up as well. Heat caused by failing bonds due to the instantaneous pressure.

Initial penetration is caused due to the hardness of the outter face compared to the hardness of the penetrator rod in question. Currently the hardest known substance is diamond. Of course diamond is also piss poor as armor as its fracture toughness is abysmal. Why everyone uses tungsten carbide, Titanium carbide, boride, Depleted Uranium, etc.

Point Pressure equating at high speeds directly to Temperature. Look up Javelin missile and why it penetrates all tanks today. You brought up shattering. This is why it is a ROD. While bits on the tip will shatter, you still have lots of rod left to shatter. What is not known is that while the penetrator rod is shattering, so too is the armor on the tank.

Another factor relating to thickness is the speed of sound of the armor in question. Diamond Mach speed is extremely high. Therefore its thickness required for shockwave distribution also needs to be thicker. A low shock wave propagation speed means the cone angle will be wider and therefore more of the "armor" will need to be spalled creating a hole. A high shock wave speed requires a smaller spalling allowing the secondary HEAT charge to enter the armor as the shockwave follows quicker on the heels of the penetrator. Another problem with high Mach numbers in materials is the reflective properties and secondary damage is not very nice.

If you want to look at history of armor look on the web. I am sure several excellent write ups exist.

PS. Best armor going today seems to be SiC. As soon as they are able to create SiC fibers and place in a lightweight matrix that is...

Relax wrote:

Belial666 wrote:Anyone remember where that schematic was?

Schematic is in back of SftS

MaxQQ also has an animation of a Mk-16 laserhead firing on his deviantart page.

Weird Harold wrote:

Belial666 wrote:Anyone remember where that schematic was?

MaxQQ also has an animation of a Mk-16 laserhead firing on his deviantart page.

Well... it's actually on YouTube, but linked on my DA page, as well as in my sig below.

My DA page also has cutaway views of several missiles.

On-topic: Honorverse armor is layered with different materials, and designed to distribute heat and kinetic energy to minimize damage.

I thought there was an explanation of Honorverse warship armor available in one of the books, but I may be wrong and just remembering some internal BuNine stuff we were tossing around.

Either way, it's the best the Honorverse can offer, but it's not perfect, which should be obvious.

yes its in "In the Fire Forged"