Seeds of Assassination

dreamrider wrote:I would argue that if Elouise were assassinated in any fashion that was IDENTIFIABLE to the public as an assassination (and most of the nano attacks have been pretty splashy and clear in overt intent), then Thom Theisman would probably be the clear popular choice for successor, by public acclimation.

The outrage in the Republic would not rise to the levels that it would in Manticore over a hit on Elizabeth, or in Grayson over a strike at the Protectorship (or the Champion), but it would be overwhelming enough to force him to take the job and steer the tsunami.

Contrary to what some seem to think, thanks to his own work of the last 10 years, Theisman would not be indispensable to the RHN, if he were called to higher responsibilities.

dreamrider

Interesting analysis. Quiteso. And I'm sure you are right about Theisman, though admittedly, I never considered it in that fashion. Besides, I was considering the feeling that Theisman just wouldn't accept the position. He would simply pass the reins down to someone else he thought could handle it. Theisman is a Navy man. Much like Honor. I simply cannot see Harrington sitting on a throne with a tiara on her head. What is that phrase, 'die of apoplexy?' Or she'd have to kill Michelle, 'cause there's no way she could bear all of the jokes. Theisman is too much like Honor, IMHO.

As popular as Tom Theisman is, he does not want political power, and also knows he's incapable of wielding political power effectively. Not only that, while the public greatly admires Theisman for reinstating the old Republic, they're not too crazy about anything which even hints at the return of heavy handed military rule. So Theisman being president is out.

The following infodump is unambiguous:

http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... ngton/50/1

Under the Havenite constitution (which is not a clone of the U.S. Constitution, despite similarities) the successor to the president in the case of his death or his being rendered incompetent is not the vice president, who doesn't exist, but the secretary of state. While this is an appointive office, it stands second in the succession of executive authority, which is one reason why it requires confirmation by the senate.

So the Secretary of State takes over with little fuss until the next election. If the assassination was remotely overt enough to even hint at the Alignment's involvement, then it's quite probable that the next president would be just as driven as Pritchart to fight alongside the Alliance.

Duckk wrote:As popular as Tom Theisman is, he does not want political power, and also knows he's incapable of wielding political power effectively. Not only that, while the public greatly admires Theisman for reinstating the old Republic, they're not too crazy about anything which even hints at the return of heavy handed military rule. So Theisman being president is out.

Erm? When did Haven have military rule? The Legislaturalists certainly weren't a military junta, neither was the committee, and certainly the Old Republic wasn't.

Yeah, probably a bad choice of words on my part. What I mean is something like the dominance of a single personality in the government and in the military. The Republic has been very careful to not only respect the letter of their constitution, but the appearance of following it as well. Theisman and Pritchart have been very careful to stay in their respective corners where their authority is concerned. As well intentioned as Theisman is, he can't separate himself from the military no matter how hard he tries, so taking over the presidency will give the appearance of the Bad Ole Days.

Duckk wrote:Yeah, probably a bad choice of words on my part. What I mean is something like the dominance of a single personality in the government and in the military. The Republic has been very careful to not only respect the letter of their constitution, but the appearance of following it as well. Theisman and Pritchart have been very careful to stay in their respective corners where their authority is concerned. As well intentioned as Theisman is, he can't separate himself from the military no matter how hard he tries, so taking over the presidency will give the appearance of the Bad Ole Days.

Ditto Duckk. (sorry, ditto Duckk sounds like a song. The flip side of disco Duck. Remember?) Darn, I'm overworked.

Seriously, Theisman is too enamoured with his beloved Republic to ever permanently take the reins. Just like Honor, he'd think he was doing it a disservice. And just like he and Honor said about each other, they both have 'too much integrity' to do so. True or no, they'd feel they'd be shortchanging their nations.

Duckk wrote:As popular as Tom Theisman is, he does not want political power, and also knows he's incapable of wielding political power effectively. Not only that, while the public greatly admires Theisman for reinstating the old Republic, they're not too crazy about anything which even hints at the return of heavy handed military rule. So Theisman being president is out.

The following infodump is unambiguous:

http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... ngton/50/1

Under the Havenite constitution (which is not a clone of the U.S. Constitution, despite similarities) the successor to the president in the case of his death or his being rendered incompetent is not the vice president, who doesn't exist, but the secretary of state. While this is an appointive office, it stands second in the succession of executive authority, which is one reason why it requires confirmation by the senate.

So the Secretary of State takes over with little fuss until the next election. If the assassination was remotely overt enough to even hint at the Alignment's involvement, then it's quite probable that the next president would be just as driven as Pritchart to fight alongside the Alliance.

Absolutely on point as usual, Duckk. My money would be on Leslie to take the reins. I know we haven't seen much of her (yet), but she has to be both tough and good at her job simply to be where she is. Eloise trusts her, Eloise's inner circle trusts her, and she was sliding into a very hot seat (thanks, Giancola! ). If she couldn't handle it, she never would have gotten the job.

Over his dead body would Theisman take the Presidency. Number one, he's not temperamentally suited for it; but other posters are absolutely right in pointing out that anything that smells of military control of a civilian government comes under the heading of a Very Bad Thing. Yes, the Navy was instrumental in making the restored Republic possible, but that Republic must be seen as independent from the Navy if it is to have any respect or chance of surviving. The true test, I think, will come when Eloise and Tom leave office - if it can stand then, we know it will endure.

roseandheather wrote:

Duckk wrote:As popular as Tom Theisman is, he does not want political power, and also knows he's incapable of wielding political power effectively. Not only that, while the public greatly admires Theisman for reinstating the old Republic, they're not too crazy about anything which even hints at the return of heavy handed military rule. So Theisman being president is out.

The following infodump is unambiguous:

http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... ngton/50/1

Under the Havenite constitution (which is not a clone of the U.S. Constitution, despite similarities) the successor to the president in the case of his death or his being rendered incompetent is not the vice president, who doesn't exist, but the secretary of state. While this is an appointive office, it stands second in the succession of executive authority, which is one reason why it requires confirmation by the senate.

So the Secretary of State takes over with little fuss until the next election. If the assassination was remotely overt enough to even hint at the Alignment's involvement, then it's quite probable that the next president would be just as driven as Pritchart to fight alongside the Alliance.

Absolutely on point as usual, Duckk. My money would be on Leslie to take the reins. I know we haven't seen much of her (yet), but she has to be both tough and good at her job simply to be where she is. Eloise trusts her, Eloise's inner circle trusts her, and she was sliding into a very hot seat (thanks, Giancola! ). If she couldn't handle it, she never would have gotten the job.

Over his dead body would Theisman take the Presidency. Number one, he's not temperamentally suited for it; but other posters are absolutely right in pointing out that anything that smells of military control of a civilian government comes under the heading of a Very Bad Thing. Yes, the Navy was instrumental in making the restored Republic possible, but that Republic must be seen as independent from the Navy if it is to have any respect or chance of surviving. The true test, I think, will come when Eloise and Tom leave office - if it can stand then, we know it will endure.

Wasn't Leslie up for assassination herself because of her ambition? Or am I mistaken?

A military coup is nothing short of assassination. Haven lived by coup. If Haven had a history of assassinating their own, little wonder they had no problem assassinating Manticorans. Hey, nothing personal.

The Legislaturists relied on Internal Security (InSec) moles that Constance Palmer-Levy had deep within the leadership of the Citizens' Rights Union. Knowing the extent of infiltration from Oscar Saint-Just, Rob S. Pierre told Cordelia Ransom to separate her cells from the main body of the Citizens' Rights Union. It was those cells that would assassinate Constance Palmer-Levy and use People's Navy assault shuttles to wipe out the Hereditary President and the leading Legislaturists in a "military coup".

Together with the so-called Citizens' Rights Union and a security bureaucrat named Oscar Saint-Just, Pierre staged a coup that killed Hereditary President Harris and most of his government as well as his family; he managed to place the blame on members of the People's Navy and then used his role as Speaker to maneuver the People's Quorum to appoint him chairman of a newly instituted Committee of Public Safety. (HH3)

Rob S. Pierre was killed with his entire security detail during Admiral Esther McQueen's attempted coup on December 18, 1914 PD. He was succeeded as Chairman of the Committee by Oscar Saint-Just after the latter managed to defeat the rebels by destroying the Octagon, several very large residential buildings, and several million of their inhabitants with an atomic bomb. (HH9)

Then there was Theisman's coup. On and on...

Jesse Jackson's Honorverse protege would say 'assassinate, don't procrastinate lest you hesitate to allow one to, ah ah, propitiate to conciliate or placate.'

Damn, I'm overworked.